Labor Pains
I was downtown Thursday as dozens of employees from the city’s hotels were gathering together to stage a protest over the wages paid to workers at the Hyatt and their inability to unionize. Forty-one people were arrested, including City-County Councilor Joanne Sanders. They were charged with blocking a public sidewalk, a misdemeanor.
I think a couple points need to be made here. The union issue between the Hyatt and some of its employees is a pretty standard one. The Hyatt says it doesn’t mind dealing with a union as long as it’s done by secret ballot. The workers who want to unionize want to use the process known as “card check”. Instead of a secret ballot, workers sign a form saying they want a union and the company has to stay neutral in the process.
I have never been a fan of card check. As much as I despise unions and the concept of collective bargaining, if people want to unionize they should have the right to do so, but it should be done by secret ballot so people can be free from intimidation. The bigger issue though is pay and wages. I understand people wanting more money, but my father always told me, if I have a job and don’t like the pay, I should either get another job or shut up.
The last time I checked, slavery was illegal in this country an no one was forced to work anywhere. Should a company that’s making money hand over fist share the wealth with it’s employees? Sure, if that’s what they want to do. Should a corporation pay a “living wage”? Sure, if that’s what they want to do. Of course, no one can tell me what a “living wage” actually is. The fundamental principal of employer-employee relations is that both parties are free to contract with each other. Employees don’t have to take what the company offers and the company can’t force the employees to stay.
So my advice to the hotel workers who don’t like their pay, get another job that pays closer to what you want and go get some marketable skills so you can back up those demands. No one is guaranteed anything in this world. Sorry, but that’s how it is. Deal with it. You’ll live longer and sleep better.
July 23rd, 2010 at 12:10 pm
We've heard plenty of disparaging words lately about unions — auto workers, teachers, and now hotel workers. But rarely do the union haters ever mention the organized group of professionals with the greatest salary imbalance in our society — the NFL Players Association. Perhaps someone can explain why.
Meanwhile, here's the NFL group in action, as lobbyists, with one of their concerns.
http://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/Public-News/...
July 23rd, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Take the idea of card check union recognition versus “secret ballot so people can be free from intimidation.” Have you ever seen the lead up to a “secret ballot” election?
Intimidation is what a secret ballot election is all about. Management starts having captive audience meetings and start campaigning hard against the union. They show highly misleading videos and lie about what it means to have a contract. Pro-union workers start getting harrassed and then fired. Secret promises are made (and then eventually broken) to some workers if they vote no. Secret ballot elections are very intimidating–especially when it is your boss doing the intimidating.
Add to the fact that the only reason that downtown Indy has been revitalized is because of massive public subsidies. Hyatt and all downtown Indianapolis hotels benefit from these subsidies–so why shouldn't the workers have a real voice on the job and make enough to support their families?
July 23rd, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Rank & file members need a canard check.
Opaque, limited transparency, or non disclosure from the ruling class of the union caste, is being used to leverage complete exposure & intimidate the rank & file; old world tactics of tyrants & despots, the rednecks of yesteryear, a bygone error.
July 23rd, 2010 at 1:47 pm
what you state is no different than what the union does. All votes should be secret
July 23rd, 2010 at 1:50 pm
You're opposed to card check changes? Well color me “surprised.”
And you despise collective bargaining.
Pity. Properly run, a union shop is a thing of beauty.
July 23rd, 2010 at 1:54 pm
This is actually the some of the real dangers of Free Markets at work.
For auto company and manufacturing it is easier to just ship jobs overseas
For hotel and service industries that isn't so easy.
The company has a option just to close the business if they feel the workers are asking for to much and it isn't worth the trouble.
If that is what they chose to do then that would be the best interest of everyone and the Indianapolis market regulated itself not to have a Hyatt hotel.
Just as it isn't the companies duty to create jobs just for jobs sake. I don't think people work for companies just to say they are working.
If forming a union will allow them to recieve better pay, better benefits then go for it.
The line about intimidation runs both ways from union official and from the companies.
I don't know hardly anything about the process, but maybe some laws that require if the company is going to give a presentation about not unionizing then the union should be given the same amount of time to voice their view point. Just a thought.
July 23rd, 2010 at 1:55 pm
that is supposed to be 'I hardly know anything'
July 23rd, 2010 at 2:20 pm
The Employee Free Choice Act would help with the last part you suggest, but the Chamber and other business allies are killing it. And as far as intimidation, why are there grossly more complaints filed with the National Labor Relations Board against employer intimidation than against union intimidation. There is a stereotype of “union bosses” just like any other stereotype of any other class/group of people, but that doesn't always mean it is taking place – it's like the first argument against a union organizing drive before there is even any time for intimidation.
July 23rd, 2010 at 3:11 pm
So Joanne Sanders is a Jailbird?…..fitting.
July 23rd, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Explain how anybody who puffs out their chest on the sanctity of secret ballot in civic voting can justify not having secrecy in voting on a union. If there's a would-be conspiracy in keeping voters from the polls with a more stringent ID check, where's the conspiracy in keeping shopworkers from having a private decision on their vote regarding a union? The same private decision that's a cornerstone of our civic voting.
I volunteered as an election official in an off-year election, with a union shop serving as the polling place. From the campaign posters hidden behind shelving and literature beneath manuals, it's fully apparent that voter influence is not absent from the other side either.
I don't think unions are all bad or good. They're a check and balance, and like any other they can be corrupted themselves. The current state of the automobile industry owes some of it's downfall to the UAW, but I don't want kids in sweatshops either.
Pursuit of legislation or enforcement of existent law to demand the employer and the union toe the line in tactics prior to a vote sounds great. Unfortunately, given the allure of campaign donations, I can see it being enforced about as thoroughly as our immigration laws.
While I believe we're still bitter over things like the circumstances of Bush's second election and Obama's first, I think we're suppossed to act like grownups and stand by secret ballot, with with limited and lawful persuasion by both sides.
July 23rd, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Isn't she up for reelection? Just a little campaign work, that's all.
July 23rd, 2010 at 4:00 pm
A thing of beauty? Wow, you should get out more.
The union is a microcosm of a socialistic society. To each according to his needs…blah blah blah. Of course the hotel workers want to unionize. That way they can perform in a substandard fashion and be paid more than they're worth, all while their jobs are being protected. Unions have long outlived their usefulness. The auto industry, airlines, public education–all dismal failures. We have the unions to thank for that.
July 23rd, 2010 at 4:43 pm
“…The auto industry, airlines, public education–all dismal failures. We have the unions to thank for that…”
See? This is what I'm talking about. Rico, don't forget professional sports.
July 23rd, 2010 at 8:30 pm
My friend Jen (former Chef at Earth House) was part of the arrests. She was interviewed on Fox59. Anyway, she just pretended to be handcuffed in what was really a faked arrest scenaro.
.
She said the workers are being made to clean twice as many rooms for same pay. First thing that came to my mind was that Hyatt Hotel rooms must be skanky and not cleaned well between guests. You won't catch me staying at a Hyatt as I don't want cooties.
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A long time ago I worked at the Hyatt. The place is kind of gross. I quit after 6 weeks.
July 23rd, 2010 at 8:48 pm
I submit that the quality of work would decrease if they unionized. Nearly without exception that is the case.
July 23rd, 2010 at 8:51 pm
Rico I challenge you to clean 30+ rooms in a day. It would take me an hour to do just one.
July 23rd, 2010 at 9:57 pm
In 2011, along with all the other At-Large seats and the mayor's office.
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Then, I assume, you would choose not to work there. What the union will do is negotiate down the productivity of its members, assuring that they do no more work than absolutely necessary. That's just what unions have become. Period.
July 24th, 2010 at 10:35 am
She'll be the next council president after the elections, Ernie. Now THAT'S fitting. And I'm pretty sure she's not pining away for your vote. Actually, I'm not sure anyone is.
July 24th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Unions need protection racquets to survive; in truly progressive, free market terms, there a thing of the passed.
Got a legitimate employment gripe? It's called a lawyer, engage one at a fraction of the cost of lifetime “dues” & failed promises of the ruling caste.
July 24th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
If Joanne is elected as President of the CC she will make a much better President than any democrat in the past but she will always lack in the quality of leadership brought forth from the right of the past few years.
And as a democrat we know she is qualified… after all being a leader in the democrat party requires unlawfulness in ones past. Joanne can state honestly she is now ready for leadership in the democrat party however, I doubt if she will be President during the next five years.
TA I'm friendly with Joanne and she is likewise with me…but the last thing Joanne expects from me is my vote. Everyone involved in politics know how I will vote TA. Does it make you feel superior for bringing it up?
July 25th, 2010 at 12:13 am
Nope. Not superior. But you show your true color when you degrade an entire party, insinuate unlawfulness by a majority of its members, and generally defame anyone with whom you disagree.
“Quality of leadership” from the right?” Are you freaking serious? I want whatever you're drinking.
July 25th, 2010 at 9:52 am
The one thing the union folks, especially those in the lower paying, less education required fields, never think of…is voting themselves out of a job. Tell you what, Walmart clerks make around $9/hour, if not more. If unions were to force Walmart to pay union wages, to where someone running a bar code over a laser is making $15/hour, plus health care, plus two weeks a year vacation, plus holiday pay, etc.., guess what, I am quitting my law enforcement job that pays $17/hour and going to Walmart. I don't have to worry about being sued, about being fired for defending myself, about being killed, or about being injured. I likely don't have to worry about being on the night shift, or working every holiday, for the next six to ten years since I am low in seniority. This same thought holds true for cleaning rooms. I will gladly clean hotel rooms at $15/hour. Hell, the starting pay at some police departments is less than that. So what will some of these employees do when they are finally fired for running late, and folks like me end up taking their easy as cake job of running bar codes over lasers, cleaning toilets, etc? Do you think the majority of your Walmart clerks, your hotel maids, etc. could then take a job working as a police officer?
So start paying these union wages of $15+/hour, and watch how many cops and firefighters take their 20 year pension and run towards those jobs. Watch how many stay a home moms with logic and intelligence and college educations decide that $15/hour to run something over a laser is well worth it. Then watch how many baby mamas, welfare types, etc. get canned from Walmart. If Walmart and hotels start paying that kind of wage, any union member who has trouble getting to work on-time, trouble slacking off, and/or barely any logic skills is going to quickly find themselves out of a job. I do believe, 100% that any sort of mid-teens hourly rate for a hotel or Walmart job will do nothing but put many GED, no high school degree, no speak English types out of work completely. Oh well.
July 25th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Monroe Gray didn't exactly set the bar very high did he? And as I recall Joanne was in a leadership position and sitting to his left during CC meetings.
After observing that democrat dog and pony show, I’d say that the current President and the immediate past did and are doing stellar work.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:29 am
Interesting that you can call someone out for degrading a whole party, when you can in the same six lines degrade even wider than that, the entire right.
Physician? Heal thyself!
July 26th, 2010 at 12:38 am
My take on the modern union is that they are a middleman. No longer is the manufacturer or educator (in those cases) the employer. The union is. The union hires and can fire, but rarely does. The union takes something from the employer and from the employee as the middleman, but really creates what of value?
About the only thing it can create of value is to increase benefits and/or wages, or reduce working hours at the same take-home pay. In a global economy, that is all pretty much suicide, as we've seen. I'm recalling AT&T's recent labor battle with IBEW. The union tried to do well by its' members in holding the line on benefits and other proposed givebacks. The members got beat up in the court of public opinion on newspaper and other media websites by people saying, “I've been unemployed for 10 months. I'll take your job at lower pay, you ingrate.” The union had to cave.
I find something inherently wrong with a system of employment and compensation that values longevity more than actual productivity.