Gather Ye Muslims While Ye May*
As Americans mourn the loss of more than dozen people murdered by alleged shooter Nidal Malik Hasan thoughtful people are asking thoughtful questions and the crazies are coming out of the woodwork.
Hasan apparently left signs all over the place that something just wasn’t quite right; A PowerPoint presentation on suicide bombers, attempts to contact Al-Qaeda, his voicing of objections to Muslims serving in the military, etc. Hasan exhibited all the signs of someone who should have been monitored and brought in for questioning because he engaged in a certain type of behavior. And reasonable people will want to know how he slipped through the cracks.
What’s frustrating however is that the incident at Ft. Hood has opened the door for the crazies and religious bigots to come out of the woodwork and question not only the loyalties of Muslims serving in the military (which is my brother and up until 1996 was my Dad). As a radio talk show host I get the calls and e-mails calling for everything from deportation to internment camps.
Of course the one thing advocates of the positions don’t think about, along with all the other things they don’t think about, is the only way to make sure American Muslims don’t attack anyone is to put everyone in camps. You can’t just tell who’s a Muslim by looking at him. And you can’t go by names alone, because it would be just like a terrorist to be named Al, Peggy, Bud or Kelly to avoid detection.
And you couldn’t just go after people who attend services at a mosque. All the terrorists would do is stop going or for that matter they would attend the most evangelical, holy rolling, tongue speaking church they could find. So I guess they would have to be rounded up also.
Yes, I know all this is ridiculous. But then again when reasonable suspicion turns into irrational fear, what do you expect?
*My apologies to Robert Herrick.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:04 am
The fruition of political correctness where there is disregard of evidence in its name.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:10 am
One of your best posts ever. Seriously.
9-11-01 caught us all off guard—it shouldn't have, but it did. Our cumulative paranoia may have been a natural reaction, for awhile. It's no longer acceptable human behavior and it should be called out whenever it exists.
That said, if the warnings were are numerous and “out” as we're now hearing–again, these are allegations not proven facts yet–heads should roll in the Pentagon and/or at Ft. Hood.
Why?
Because a man professionally trianed to spot unstable folks, was in an environment where stress is at an all-time high. If these allegations are true, he sent out solid signals for quite some time. Someone, somewhere, should've noticed.
The military is not an open, democratic institution. You can be dismissed for being gay. For looking cross-eyed at a CO. There is almost no recourse…command structures do not need to justify their behavior in most instances, and that's the way it should be, for unit cohesion and strict adherence to their ultimate mission–breaking things and killing people, and of course, defending us.
I'm guessing our Army is so desparate for trained professionals that multiple superiors ignored these warnings. And the price we pay is 50 people dead or seriously hurt.
We never seem to learn, do we?
Prayers today: for the families affected in our military. And for the shooter–one of God's troubled children whose clals for help apparently went unanswered.
And for all of us–that we resist the temptation to stereotype or profile in harmful ways.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Guess “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”, being the world's melting pot, and pursuing the American Dream are out of fashion for some folks.
Much easier to blame our troubles on foreigners, vilify a someone else's religion, while pursuing our own mono-religious theocracy.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Alleged killer?
November 10th, 2009 at 8:26 am
“I'm guessing our Army is so desparate for trained professionals that multiple superiors ignored these warnings.”– TA
No, TA, the warnings were ignored due to political correctness. In fact, several soldiers admitted as much. Had Hasan been a Christian man who demonstrated such behavior, there would have been people lining up to make those allegations. It is this resistance to profile that got our soldiers killed. It doesn't surprise me that you suggest more of the same. To quote you: “We never learn , do we?”
November 10th, 2009 at 9:01 am
interesting and perplexing point: human against human (and also observed in some other animals) based on any number of factors: race, clan, religion, philosophy, sex, etc. etc. and going farther into serious divisions within a religion or race based on any of many factors. Interesting that it may be based on religion where violent difference within the religion (and this has occurred within many religions throughout history) and a uniting even of fractions against another religion or “infidels”. Infidel defined as anyone not of one's specific beliefs.
Not sure we will ever find a way to live together. And in a country such as the U.S. where difference are not supposed to be noted –only those who believe in that philosophy may be practicing it.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Profiling and Border security:
.
Profiling- We do it in everyday life, from groaning at the outward appearance of a restaurant to bouncers turning away people at the door of a popular club. Based on the profile of needing soldiers who'll put comrades before religion, a Christian publicly and devoutly espousing “Thou Shalt Not Kill” does not sound like a soldier to keep any more than Mr. Hasan. I think your notion of profiling the behavior versus the person is preferable, but depending on resources & urgency- not always possible.
.
Border security- If we practiced it with the vigilance of Israel, we could not only tackle our economics based on a more fixed headcount without immigration gone amuck, but avoid some (not all) of the terrorism New York, Spain, London, and Indonesia have experienced over the past few years.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:03 am
So true, Church. Look at Rico's post.
Rico, here's a suggestion, strictly off-the-cuff, but it's worth a shot:
Either you detest me for sport, or you're seriously unhappy, or both. It doesn't really matter. Sometimes you challenge my beliefs and force me to re-think or reject. It's rare, but it happens.
Try going 24 hours expressing only your opinion, without slamming someone else's in the process. Once you get to that milestone, add another 24.
Baby steps, Rico.
Political correctness may be partly to blame. But whose PC?
The neocons had a POC attitude that demanded absolute allegiance to Pres. Bush's military judgment. Which we now know was seriously flawed by bad intel and worse intuition.
The far left has a PC attitude that too often demands we all open up our wallets to cure every ill.
I find some solace in the political views of left and right. I listen and learn form each when I can.
But here's another tip: disrespectful and smarmy attitudes toward those with whom you disagree, diminishes your audience. Tremendously. So stop already, with “assuming” I or anyone else will automatically respond a certain way to news or events.
I'm rootin' for ya.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Someone's on a “Married with Children” kick:
…Al, Peggy, Bud or Kelly…
November 10th, 2009 at 9:55 am
My favorite part:
“And in a country such as the U.S. where difference are not supposed to be noted –only those who believe in that philosophy may be practicing it.”
Its not to late to remind everyone of our basic principals and challenge people to aim higher.
Just need a microphone as loud as the people who have little good to say.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:30 am
“This is wherre Rico makes a snotty comment, and Wilson or someone answers back….that's part of the noise machine we've got to endure these days.”–TA November 8, 2009 .
This comment made yesterday was before I'd even posted. It went unanswered by me. Once again, your selective memory is at work.
I don't detest anyone for sport. And my happiness has absolutely nothing to do with why I respond to some of your posts. (A bit narcissistic of you, isn't it?) And subjectivism is a fallacy in logic. My responses to your posts are not based on any dislike for you. It is your ideology that I confront. Throwing a verbal jab at you in the process is a bonus.
Political correctness has nothing to do with right or left. It does not, however, apply evenly to all groups. A recent article by Maureen Dowd in the NY Times bashing Catholicism would be considered 'hate speech' had it been directed at the Muslim faith. People are afraid of retribution from Muslims if any word critical of Islam is uttered. That just isn't true of any other worldwide religion. Refusing to profile Muslims in any way is simply ignoring the reality of radical Islam and how it manifests itself far too often.
Our failure to profile for fear of offending someone got 13 of our soldiers killed and dozens more injured. Your position on this has been proven , in the most tragic of ways, to be dangerous. What do you suggest? More of the same. It is that mindset that has Airport security strip-searching elderly Jewish ladies while letting Arab men pass.
It's absurd to suggest there is strong support for deportation or internment camps based on a few crazies from Abdul's show. This man was clearly a threat and no one acted. It was an act of terror, plain and simple. The fact that those in power don't have the courage to ever label it as so makes me believe we can count on plenty more of the same.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Why can't we just do common sense?
Had people felt free to exercise their common sense in regard to what they knew about this man, then the bloodbath could have been averted.
But let's not offend anyone. God forbid a Muslim gets their feelings hurt. It is weird how no one gives a damn about hurting the feelings of a Christian these days.
Today I heard a woman call into a talk show about a book her child was being made to read in tax payer funded schools. The book explains to our children that their rights are given to us by government.
Last I checked, I got my rights from my creator.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:45 am
To try and cast all Muslims, Arabs or other people of Middle Eastern decent in a negative light and call for sweeping action against them would be no different and no less evil than the crime of putting all Japanese Americans in camps (FDR – whatta guy) as the U.S. did during World War II.
It was wrong then. It would be wrong now.
Perhaps if the root of the problem was handled, that being the misguided interventionist foreign policies of our government leaders we could worry less about the 'blowback' that results.
Let us never forget that the United States undermined and overturned a Democratically elected secular government in Iran in 1953 (google: Operation Ajax) to install a dictator that would be overthrown in the late 70s. That Saddam Hussein was the trigger man in a (CIA supported) plot to kill Qasim in 1959 and in 1963 the Ba'ath party came to power after a successful CIA operation. That the United States supported BOTH SIDES of the Iran-Iraq war in the 80s as a way to keep both nations at war and weak to try and maintain U.S. Hegemony in the region.
Think the leaders and people of those countries don't know we supported a war that killed a million of their people? We talk about promoting freedom, liberty and democracy in the world while at the same time allying ourselves with authoritarian regimes, dictators and royals in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Support for the unpopular royal family in Saudi Arabia is a root cause of 9/11, by the terrorists own words. And, so often overlooked, is the fact that many terrorist activities are indeed state sponsored by countries who do not desire the United States trying to exert its control over their peoples, governments, elections and leaders. Just as we would resent and oppose such interventions in our own country.
It is almost now a classic “Catch-22″. We are targets because we meddle. The excuse to meddle now is that we fear being targets.
The fear-mongers, the U.S. “kick ass and we'll do whatever we want because we can” or the “they hate us and are jealous because we are rich and let our woman drive” crowds may not accept the truth that resulted from 60 years of failed foreign policy; but, they always readily accept the truth that the government fails at managing the economy, protecting our freedoms and liberty or any number of other things that government never does right.
They will say stupid things like, “you hate America” or “quit blaming America” but nobody says such things when those same people complain about high taxes, gun right restrictions, lost liberty, free speech restrictions, smoking bans or whatever else. It is not America that is being criticized, it is the policies and actions of politicians and bureaucrats. This is just another example.
I love the quote, “Free people don't make war. Governments do.”
November 10th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
While addressing this matter with a local shrink I learned that the profession is quite understaffed as not enough people are entering it.The guess was about 8% more are needed each year. My guess is that some law requires shrinks in the military and given the law(which is probably a stupid law to begin with) they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. My own opinion is that the profession is shrinking because knowledge has expanded past the basis of quackery the profession rests on. That is, “cures” are not coming from laying on a couch as much as they are coming from treating chemical imbalances. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487... This noted author has her own take which is worth reading.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
You also ought to run a poll as to who Robert Herrick is (I suggest that format so as to keep folks away from google). I also compliment your accruate sourcing and suggest only partly tongue in cheek that we revisit the matter of bounties as in the old West. Muslims who seek to kill Americans ought to have bounties on their heads all across the world.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
It is America that is called the 'Great Satan' by radical Islamists. And you are, Sean, blaming America. Does the U.S. get any credit for savings lives and bringing freedom to Muslims in Iraq? How about Kuwait? Bosnia?
We are infidels, plain and simple. The Koran offers three choices to Muslims when dealing with infidels. Convert them, enslave and tax them, or kill them. Do you actually believe that if we pulled out of all Muslim nations the killing would stop? Dream on.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
I'm not saying there aren't “radical Islamists” but I also understand that religion and religious fervor can be leveraged by those with a political agenda.
Even the Christian Bible says that you can sell your children into slavery (Exodus 21:7), can't plant different crops side by side, make garments of wool and linen together (Deuteronomy 22:11) , you are made unclean by touching the skin of a dead pig (Leviticus 11:7) or should be put to death for working on the sabbath (Exodus 35:2).
Yeah, so their book has some crazy stuff in it too. What is your point?
November 10th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
“God forbid a Muslim gets their feelings hurt.” There's a lot in that statement, Melyssa…funny at first, kinda not so funny on second thought.
This is not about hurting someone's feelings. Radical fringes of every organized religion since the dawn of time, have sought to justify disgusting acts via their faith. And if they skewer their holy books just right, they can probably do it. Ask Pat Robertson. He of Hurricane-altering faith.
It's all about context. Except for the Book of Ba'hai, most of today's religious volumes were written in a time that requires, for modern-day use, multiple generations' translations.
The Holy Book equivalent of the kids circle game, “Whisper.” Where one kid whispers something to the kid beside him, and by the time it gets around to the originator, it's nowhere near the original message.
The preferred method of communication to the masses, until the 12th century, was word-of-mouth. Because only the upper class and elite were educated enough to read. The common European practice was for state-sponsored monks to copy down books by hand.
It's safe to say, in the case of some religious interpretations, “something got lost in the translation.”
Can I get an Amen? And a “let it rest” on the Muslim-bashing? As Gen. Colin Powell said last year, “is it suddenly wrong to be a Muslim in America?”
November 10th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
TAMPA — A Marine reservist armed with a tire iron beat and chased a man he thought was an Arab terrorist and even called 911 to say he was detaining the man, police said.
But the man he assaulted was actually a Greek Orthodox priest visiting from overseas who spoke limited English, police said.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime...
November 10th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
That's the Old Testament, Sean. You do know that things changed a little when Christ entered the picture….?
And that's a pretty weak argument. Are Christians murdering innocent people daily in the name of their faith? You know the answer to that question.
It is a fact that most mass murders committed in this country are at the hands of those who have no religious affiliation whatsoever. Of course, the 9/11 attack was an exception. Look at the attacks that have been thwarted recently. With which faith was each plot associated? Christianity?
Who among us expected and feared that the attack at Ft. Hood was committed by a Muslim? I wonder how many soldiers who had encountered Hasan knew it was he who did the killing before they ever heard the name of the shooter.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
There seem to be thousands (perhaps millions) of Muslims who misinterpret the Koran. In fact, more and more misinterpret the 1400 year old book each day. Perhaps Muslim leadership should rise up against the horrific violence committed by radical Islamists. They've been given many chances, but it hasn't really happened yet. Don't hold your breath, TA. (…well….you can hold your breath if you want)
November 10th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
The fact that he was a Marine reservist makes what point? Of course, there are ignorant rednecks everywhere. Are you attempting to equate the rare exception you point to with the daily violence committed by radical Islamists? Isn't it past your bedtime?
November 10th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Stay classy, “Rico”. Stay classy!
November 10th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
At least 20 Dallas officers wrote tickets for non-existent law of Driving While Not Speaking English.
At least 20 Dallas police officers from five patrol divisions have wrongly cited motorists for not speaking English since 2007, according to records. Almost all of the 38 people cited for the offense – which is not a crime in Dallas – were Hispanic. In five cases, the person cited paid all or a portion of the $204 fine.
Senior Cpl. Glenn White, president of the Dallas Police Association, said the department's response and the public outcry are overblown.
“You go to work every day and if you make a mistake, you got a colonoscopy coming from the command staff,” White said.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/new...
November 10th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Melyssa you are 100% right on this issue.
“Its a God given Right” How many times in my life have I heard that statement? I can't count how many. The last time I checked God was around when or country was founded. Amen sister.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
A Marine isn't allowed to make a mistake Wilson?
You need to thank God for the Marines if not for the Marines you could easily be conversing in German tonight. Then again you might not be… we all know how Hitler revered homosexuals.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
If you knew anything about American military history Ernie, you'd know that the USMC fought almost exclusively in the Pacific Theater in WW2, not in Germany. You do know Hitler was Austrian/German and not Japanese, right?
Any other problems with that story, take it up with the Tampa Police Department!
November 10th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Yes Wilson I do know that. I think I know a little more about the Military than you. Your term “almost exclusively” conferms my statement.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Wilson why don’t you try telling the remaining Marines who worked in the OSS that their service didn’t count. I’m sure that the Marines who served on US Navy ships would appreciate your dumb ass comments, as will those who served on the Joint Chiefs. Tomorrow would be a good time to express your admiration to those who served. The parade starts at noon.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Abdul,
Are you going to count you votes again on the smoke-free workplace issue? You and Plowman and your buddy Klopenstein better get your stories straights because the 15 votes are locked in. Better luck next time…here is to protecting our bar workers from heart disease and lung cancer!
November 10th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Uh, the Latin in which most Church history was written is perfectly assessible to the modern educated person. Even the greatest recent Christian writer (C.S. Lewis) was quite fluent in Latin and wrote many letters in that language. There are thousands of books written in Latin that haven't been translated into English. Even Newton wrote in that language for international audiences. Most people can get the gist of the Vulgate without too much reference to their Lewis and Short. In other words, the assertation that one needs multiple translations to find historical teachings is a very imprecise assertation. A person ignorant of Latin is quite an ignorant person.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Glad you have found this forum. All opinions are welcome.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Why can't the smoking ban people just let it go. Government has to much involvement in our daily lives as it is without giving them more authority. Your worn out argument of the bar workers having no where else to go is getting ridiculous. You don't want second hand smoke? Stay home.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:51 am
So, Rico, people of Jewish faith do not accept Jesus and the New Testament. Regardless, that stuff is still in the book. There is some historical evidence (I'm not sure how credible – haven't dug into it) that Khazarian Ashkenazi's invented modern terrorism in the Middle East.
You're counter regarding Christians murdering innocent people overlooks the occasional errant bomb dropped on a wedding party, the funding of two sides of a war to intentionally reduce populations … so, I think the answer is … Yes. You are only looking at events over here, not events world wide. Does it ever sink in that people of all (or no) faiths in varying levels of government commit fraud, theft, assault, battery or other crimes under the protection of a government badge every day?
The Ft. Hood thing is definitely tragic, but I think there is evidence surfacing that supports your speculation that some folks knew he was a ticking time bomb but political correctness prevented any action? The final story should be interesting and telling.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:54 am
I'll give TA an “amen” AND a “Let it rest.”
November 11th, 2009 at 6:56 am
IndyErnie, not all rights are God given. There are, indeed, legislatively-granted rights. For example:
42 USC 1981
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/42/21/I/1981
(a) Statement of equal rights
All persons within the jurisdiction of the United States shall
have the same right in every State and Territory to make and
enforce contracts, to sue, be parties, give evidence, and to the
full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security
of persons and property as is enjoyed by white citizens, and shall
be subject to like punishment, pains, penalties, taxes, licenses,
and exactions of every kind, and to no other.
42 USC 1982
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/42/21/I/1982
All citizens of the United States shall have the same right, in
every State and Territory, as is enjoyed by white citizens thereof
to inherit, purchase, lease, sell, hold, and convey real and
personal property.
Any book that teaches that OUR RIGHTS come from government is just plain wrong, and said book should be petitioned for removal. The person or persons who vetted the book should be terminated.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:15 am
9/11 only caught the ignorant off guard. I can remember reading well ahead of that about how smart people were avoiding NYC jobs because of the trade center threats. Folks who relied upon “duh government” got killed and the 911 Commission was a very extensive coverup for government incompetence sorta like this Texas thing where even the President is now lying. http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/ see his lips move?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:13 am
You see how reluctant people are to talk about the very real threat of radical Islam? It is that reluctance that got 13 of our soldiers killed and dozens more injured. Wake up!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Just as I thought a Veterans Day Parade today and no Wilson in site. Even with his BFFL on the podium no Wilson. Don’t lie and say you were there Wilson, if you had been you would have been seen with Carson in the crowd. I guess you could have been hanging out with the anti-war protesters downtown today.
Anti- military Wilson?
Pitful!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Poor old Ernie! Let's chip in to buy him some glasses in his old age. He's blind as a bat now.
I was most certainly there with 168 photos taken at the Memorial Service — some are up on Facebook already. Great speech by our Congressman André Carson too!
November 11th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
How could you miss Wilson playing paparazzi down by the corner of the steps? Heck, he even got to sit in the VIP section with the rest of the folks who actually deserved to have a seat there. Of course, it was 3 rows back, not front and center. Andre only has a limited amount of 'pull' I guess.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
More fantasies from the peanut gallery! I was there but standing and moving around constantly. Congressman Carson had nothing to do with “arranging” anything for me today.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
The difference between Timothy McViegh & William Ayers is an execution vs. consulting & “education” gigs. Sorry Tim, you just didn't have “it.”
Hasan has more in common with Bin Laden than the once established / now fringe media, seem “comfortable” to admit; the problem of extremism. Falling in line with oxymoronic notions of “political correctness,” is jumping to delusions, not conclusions.
The world looks to the majority of peace loving Muslims, to rigorously denounce & shout down extremism, in the same way Christians have been compelled to do with malpractitioners like Jim Jones & David Koresh.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
I could use a new set of specs. I'm used to the fluorescent hair…has Wilson become more conservative in his old age?
Great speech? I heard Andre's speech, great??? it was mediocre at best…it's pretty obvious he didn't write it…he can't string two sentences together without tripping over his own shoelaces.
November 12th, 2009 at 5:12 am
Well, there were a few Marines assigned to the OSS in 1944 pre-invasion France. Their story was told in the James Cagney movie “13 Rue Madeleine”. Something about a Navy Cross and a few Silver Stars…
November 12th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
God forbid that we confuse Wilson Allen with trivial historial facts……don’t you know that Wilson lives in his own peaceful, warm and fuzzy world and the rest of us are just passing through.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
God forbid that we confuse Wilson Allen with trivial historial facts……don’t you know that Wilson lives in his own peaceful, warm and fuzzy world and the rest of us are just passing through.