Tea Party or Third Party
As I watched some of the coverage of the tea party rally in Washington D.C., one thing that crossed my mind was “where do these guys go from here?”
I ask that question because attending a rally is a relatively simple thing to do, all you have to do is show up. The hard part is what do you do afterwards. And I wonder if the tea party folks will form their own third party?
I say this because the core beliefs of the tea party activists has been cut back on spending, fight corruption and follow the Constitution. Many of them also say their movement is not about Republicans or Democrats, but liberty and freedom. So if the movement isn’t about political party, which someone should tell Dick Armey and Richard Behney, wouldn’t a third party be the next logical step?
If both main parties have dropped the ball then why would you want to go back and play with them? Why now start your own?
So what are you people waiting for?
September 14th, 2009 at 6:59 am
Fear is the mind killer.
Lemmings don't really run off a cliff after one another, but you wouldn't know it by watching people vote for the same old tired party hacks year after year. It's comfortable to do so.
Join a fledgling party and (gasp!) somebody might ask you to DO SOMETHING (shudder), or THINK about something (hyperventilate).
September 14th, 2009 at 7:02 am
I learn something from each “tea party” rally or event. I think some of their supporters have some excellent points and we should comb through the clutter and noise, to hear the points.
I watched much of the DC weekend rally speakers on TV. Mike Pence did well, although he repeated some untruths regarding the health care debate.
My advice to the tea-partiers would be: focus. The signs in the audience, highly visible for the cameras, ran the gammit. Ditto with their Statehouse rally here last winter. Too often, these events become a melting pot for All-Things-Anti-Obama. That train isn't going anywhere fast.
The central message: government is too big–that sells, and it's true.
It'd also be helpful if this crowd was FOR something once in a while.
That said, I enjoy and try to learn something from each of these rallies.
September 14th, 2009 at 7:47 am
I think the rallies are against the direction of the country. We all know that the parties could unite and bring forth a logical, workable fix to health care and other problems but we see that what is best for America has been usurped by politics, power, and personal gain pushed by a willing media. We the people realize that we don't seem to count except as worker bees, and to be assuaged to just shut up. That is why the seeming unfocused look. Citizens also see a leap to failed socialism being implemented and they know that once a government latches onto polices failed or otherwise, they keep the bad parts, until it totally implodes.
So thanks for all those that showed up……….
September 14th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Several hundred or thousand phrases, telling our government that it's morbidly proportioned (size of self importance & abandoned purpose), smaller, purposeful, Constitutionally reconciled government, is a simple message. Sure, it could be more focused & with a little time, that will likely happen.
By virtue of his position & consumption oriented policies (feed the beast, votes for bloat), the President has centered himself in the debate, while “appearing” to ignore its existence. Fascism isn't fun or “progressive,” and liberty loving Americans know that government control of the private sector will destroy the republic. Characteristically, communists & their associates (Van Jones, et al) are hostile to the private sector & free market- is that news to anyone?
“Where have they (tea party) been?” Investment gurus & telemarketing claims to the contrary; behavior is exponential rather than lineal, things build, we react or proact. Here we are. It's better that citizens be welcomed as participants than asked “where they've been.”
A well known professor of fine painting, explained to his advanced class of students, that they were only painters when they were painting. He encouraged the dedicated among them to keep their brushes & canvasses from “drying out.” By analogy, consider Fox News' single year, 50% profit improvement, in contrast with the decline of once established, print & broadcast media; who is “painting,” in the current media market?
September 14th, 2009 at 8:41 am
If there's anything that can be learned from “movements” in America in the last half century, it's that third parties go nowhere.
Besides, a third party wouldn't help, even if by some miracle we could get some significant gains in D.C. It's the system that needs overhaul, even more than the parties.
The tea partiers are smarter than that. We're not going to form a third party. We're going to drag the Democrats and Republicans back to reality. And, yes, that likely means that in 2010, we vote for a lot of fresh face Republicans. But we're going to make it clear that these fresh faces will be on a very short leash.
We'll vote 'em in, but we can vote 'em right back out too.
There are good principles behind both Democrat and Republican beliefs. But the system has been completely corrupted and our politicians have lost their way. We're going to make sure they remember that they work for us, not the other way around.
September 14th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Aren't the teabaggers precisely the dream constituency of the Libertarian Party? Of course, that still wouldn't crack their 3% upper limit in election results!
September 14th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Third parties go no where because of history? With that kind of thinking, we'd still have slavery and discrimination. God knows that events in history never ever change, do they?
Fools, do what you've always done and get what you always got.
From my experience, the R's and D's are both saturated with sociopaths and the situation is beyond reform. That's from local government up. I don't see any hope of reform for either party and that includes the Republican Liberty Caucus who place their party interests over what's best for The People.
I think of the R's and D's as an abusive husband. They aren't going to change no matter how much they cry, beg forgiveness and promise they won't beat you again. Trust me, they will. That is what they do. Only a completely brainwashed co-dependent weakling with no outside support would stay with an abusive husband.
It's time the Republicans and Democrats left the party that left them a long time ago and join with the Libertarians or other like minded untainted parties that represent the best values of both.
September 14th, 2009 at 10:05 am
I watched a lot of the Fox coverage on Saturday while I was working. Kudos to all the organizers who gave of themselves.
I think it is terribly important to point out that the people who attended the tea parties across the nation and in DC were mostly “working” individuals. That should, if the government really cares, send a loud message.
As to a third party? I don't see the value in that. What might be of value is a house cleaning of both parties.
September 14th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Now, now, Melyssa…don't call us fools for belonging to one party or another. Many of us try, with varying success, to reform from within. Sometimes, it works.
Dave: I like your posts. I really do. But you embrace terms like “facist” and “Communist.” I wondered where you got your information.
Alas, I read your last paragraph. I tried FoxNews for 45 days this summer. There are some bright stars there, but overall, it's a network of extremist progodandists.
Case in point: they focus on Newt Gingrich a lot. Prof. Gingrich may be smart, but riddle me this: if a leftie “expert” had the personal background of Gingrich (abandoning dying wife on deathbed, et al), wouldn't Fox, and presumably you, abhor the leftist's message as tainted? (At the least) The far right villified Ted Kennedy for 40 years regarding Mary Jo.
I gave up on Fox when they kept repeating Cheney's nonsense as if it were all fact.
Oh yeah–spend some time reading Van Johnson's vita. He admitted before he went to the White House that he had flirted with Communist teachings. In the interest of knowledge. Many of us did likewise…must everyone pay for those deeds, for a lifetime? Is there no possibility of redemption with you?
If we use the far-right's Mary Jo/Teddy scale, the answer is an emphatic “no” on redemption, unless the professor is named Gingrich. Or Tower. Or Sanford.
Step back from the thesarus, Dave…Fox isn't the best source. Fair and balanced my butt.
September 14th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Name:
Thanks for the reminder (not), I'm back to stack moving & cushion flipping. If you know where it is please let me know (along with a favorite pocket knife I lost a few years back). I'll probably resort to an e-version but can't find my thesaurus just now.
“Best source” is certainly debatable, but Fox is the leader of today's select media, which has displaced “the oldies” (33 bigs relegated to scratch-off, entertainment status), who insist that the customer & content doesn't matter. The banner “fair & balanced” is at least proposed for discussion; where the oldies seemed to promote a “we distort you deride” mentality.
I ain't term er label huggin, the term communist refers to the self described. And fascist refers to those who embrace its tenants of takeover & control of the private sector (car companies, insurance, banking, health care, etc.). Here's one definition of fascism (Library of Econ. & Liberty):
Under fascism, the state, through official cartels (the stuff of czars & thugs), controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms.
Unfortunately, the aforementioned definition seems to fit this administration's trajectory.
September 14th, 2009 at 11:01 am
A comment above said that “I think the rallies are against the direction of the country.' DUH!
Their premise, that the country is going in the wrong direction, is well established. What remains to be determined is how best to restore Constitutional government and basic sanity in DC.
September 14th, 2009 at 11:07 am
In the first place, Name, his name is Van Jones (not Johnson) and he proclaimed himself to be an avowed Marxist/Communist, not just somebody who 'flirted' with Communist teachings. Then, being the coward he is, balmed it all on a smear campaign.
Second, if there's a more balanced national media outlet than FOX, I'd like to know about it. The fact of the matter is that FOX actually broadcast negative stories about Bush. In contrast, the rest completely ignore most stories they feel would hurt Barry politically.
I love how the left demonizes FOX, yet have no qualms when ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, PBS, MSNBC, CNBC, the NY Times, The Washington Post, etc., etc., etc. actively campaign for our current president. Just try to find the latest outrage from our friends at ACORN anywhere but FOX.
September 14th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Bob Miller, it's not going to get done by doing what we've always done, which was working inside the Republican and Democrat machines. The realty is that the machine is corrupt and controlled by sociopaths. A sociopath has no conscience. Tough reality.
September 14th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Bob Miller, it's not going to get done by doing what we've always done, which was working inside the Republican and Democrat machines. The realty is that the machine is corrupt and controlled by sociopaths. A sociopath has no conscience. Tough reality.
September 14th, 2009 at 11:39 am
cj writes: “If there's anything that can be learned from “movements” in America in the last half century, it's that third parties go nowhere . . . The tea partiers are smarter than that. We're not going to form a third party. We're going to drag the Democrats and Republicans back to reality. And, yes, that likely means that in 2010, we vote for a lot of fresh face Republicans.”
Ironically, if there's anything to be learned from the last half century of US history, it's that efforts to “fix” the Republican and Democratic Parties by working within them go nowhere, since the continuing dominance of the Democratic and Republican Parties has led only to the radical expansion of government power, no matter who's in the majority. Aside from the third party question, i.e. where to go from here, there is also another which is of great importance for tea party activists: where have you been for the last ten years?
September 14th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Maybe it takes radical extremists like Barry, Nancy, and Harry in control to awake the sleeping giant. But I agree that we first must try to fix the GOP from within before even considering a third party at this point. And what recent history should have taught us, Melyssa, is that third party candidates result in people like Clinton getting elected–TWICE! A third party candidate on the national ticket in 2012 would virtually guarantee re-election for Barry.
September 14th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
“What remains to be determined is how best to restore Constitutional government and basic sanity in DC.”
It's simple: declare independence from the two-party system and stop voting for Republicans and Democrats.
September 14th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
While it will be difficult to effectuate changes within the Repubican and Democratic parties, you have a heck of a lot better doing so than as a Libertarian. There have been terrific Libertarian candidates out there. Sean, for example. But even a great Libertarian candidate will only haul in maybe 4% of the vote. It's unfair, but that's realitiy.
If Gary Welsh and I were to declare tomorrow that we were leaving the Republican Party to become Libertarian, I guarantee you that people like Tom John, Bob Grand and Joe Loftus would be thrilled. They have a lot more to fear from Republicans targetting them than Libertarians.
September 14th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
If you think Fox is balanced, Rico, I've got a bridge in Arizona for you to buy. Please.
And while you may have detested some of Clinton's moves–so did I–it cannot be argued: his budgets were the most-balanced in the last 45 years. He handed off to W with a small surplus.
And a gentle request once again, to call our president by his rightful name. It's disrespectful otherwise. And yes, he deserves your respect.
September 14th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Rico…Republicans truly fit the comparison to the classic abusive husband.
And that democrat that sometimes gets elected because of a third party?
Well, that's another bloody nose, broken arm, or black eye you suffer for staying with your abuser for another election.
One day maybe you will realize that you can't change a sociopath.
TRAITS OF THE SOCIOPATH:
1. Manipulative and conning
2. No conscience
3. Feels entitled to certain things as their “right”
4. Superficial charm
5. Pathological liar
6. Lack of remorse, guilt, or shame
7. Incapacity for love
8. Parasitic lifestyle
9. Criminal versatility
10. Authoritarian
11. Secretive
Sound like the Republicans and Democrats?
September 14th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Of course FOX seems conservative to you, TA. In fact, an independent, nonpartisan group determined in a study that FOX was slightly to the right of center. They were the only national news outlet who was to the right of center in the study. Without exception, the others were to the left, some of them (CNN, for example) were nearly as left of center as they could possibly be. So it never ceases to amaze me how the libs are threatened by FOX.
And, NO, Barry does not deserve my respect, nor did Bill Clinton. Respect is earned, and Barry has done absolutely nothing to earn my respect–not during his campaign (which, according to Barry himself, was where he gained his experience to be president), nor since he's been in the Whitehouse. In my opinion, he has devalued and diminished the office during his brief tenure. I know you will never agree. Americans are waking up, TA. You can remain in your blissful slumber for as long as you wish.
We reap what we sow. America will pay for electing Barack Obama. We already have, but the worst is yet to come. I think you'll find that many are already regretting the decision they made last November. More and more Americans will be ready to jump from the bridge you're selling in Arizona before Barry's done raping this once great nation.
September 14th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
By the way, Melyssa, the GOP has pissed me off this last decade for than it has anyone. I'm giving them this last chance. If Republicans like Mike Pence can't take the party back, all may be lost.
September 14th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Abdul; the tea-baggers will do whatever Fox “news” tells them to do next. They could have had some credibility if they would have spoke up when W. & the GOP were running up the credit card from the Bank of China. But we didn't here anything from them at the time. Any guess as to why that was? 2 words, starts with an “F.”
A 3rd party? Oh that's a good one. I know you're involved in politics, but you certainly seem to be clueless to even raise such a proposition. Their core beliefs (from what can be gathered) seem to be those of the Libertarian party, and we all know how influential they've been.
Even Alaska doesn't have a Libertarian representative anymore. A 3rd party politician doesn't have much power, both the Dems and GOP see to that. Think a 3rd party pol is gonna get good committee assignments, much less get to chair? A 3rd party president? Never even came close (within the last 150 yrs.), and never will.
Abdul, you have clearly shown that you did not major in polsci. We have a 2 party system, for a 3rd party to win another party must die out. Such is the nature of winner-take-all district representation. Think before you blog.
September 14th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I understand Rico. You still love him and can't let go yet.
September 14th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
I have very little respect for anybody in Congress, Melyssa. Mike Pence is the real deal. If you want to hang your hopes on the next Ross Perot, then have at it.
September 15th, 2009 at 6:10 am
Mal,
No offense but 3rd parties can be very effective in close contests by extracting concessions from major parties. Think outside side box little one.
September 15th, 2009 at 6:10 am
Pence is the only one I see willingly, consistently and frequently exposing himself to the media to talk about issues and his position on them. Unlike my representative, whom I almost never see or hear from except when standing up for photo ops behind the president or Al Sharpton, etc.
September 15th, 2009 at 6:18 am
I feel safe in saying there was a time in history when some ancestor of wilson46201 scoffed at the notion a measely 3-percent of black voters could have any effect on election results back when the 15th amendment was first enacted.
Time produces change.
September 15th, 2009 at 7:34 am
As a staunch Democrat, I love that 3% Libertarians get! It's siphoned away from the GOP thus tilting election races towards the Democrat. For example, Joanne Sanders owes her re-election to Tim McGwire.
Would a Teabagger Party just split that 3% vote of the Libertarians or would it be yet another 3% away from the GOP thus further helping the Democrats?
September 15th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Interesting theory – Dems that can't win strictly on their own merits but need division among other party candidates to make the cut. Talk about an 'accidental _____' (fill in the blank) officeholder.
September 15th, 2009 at 8:36 am
The person with the most votes wins. It's an American tradition!
September 15th, 2009 at 9:29 am
I admire Pence too, I really do. However, do you think Pence if given the chance would try to legislate my social morality?
September 15th, 2009 at 9:43 am
John Howard…Last week, I put a link to the first ACORN pimp/prostitute video on Andre Carson's FB page and asked him to head an investigation and cut off tax dollars to ACORN. Within minutes the link was deleted from his page.
Earlier this year, I put a message on Andre Carson's FB page and told him I'd come to a fundraiser for him if he pledged to read the entire health care bill before voting on it. Within minutes my FB commenting privilege was cut off.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:25 am
The idea that Carson would ever think or act independently of his political patrons is laughable.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Who says people don't read blogs? Looks like they do, closely.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:31 am
If he did try, I'm fairly certain he'd be willing to listen to why he's wrong and change his position based on good data rather than sticking with whatever the party bosses said to think no matter what.
And he'd damn sure have people read and understand the legislation before making them voting on it.
September 15th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
I think it's laughable to believe Andre can even read.
September 15th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Congressman André Carson has both a Bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice and a Masters degree in Business Management.
“Rico” is obviously uneducated and uninformed…
September 15th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Wilson loves the taste and feel of Andre's shoe leather on his tongue.
September 15th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Sorry Melyssa – I'm not into the kinky stuff you so revel in…
September 15th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Wilson…sorry, that's kink-speak for A**kisser! You are one to the point you cannot think for yourself. Pity.
September 15th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Rico take it easy on Carson.
As I understand it, Andre Carson has some of the better degrees that money can buy. That is without earning them.
September 15th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Considering you're an IPS dropout with a GED, IndyErnie, you're hardly anybody to talk about educational achievement. You've already called the elected Congressman a traitor and a terrorist – why should anybody believe anything else you have to say?
September 15th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Andre Carson in my opinion IS a traitor. He became one when he accepted money from suspected terrorists. Wilson you that he returned some of those funds AFTER being outted on the blogs.
Keep spinning the truth Wilson. Sooner or later you will get sooooo dizzy that you will be forced to face the truth about Carson. In the mean time some are dedicated to getting the truth about Carson out.
He is the least qualified candidate to ever run for congress from Indiana.
September 15th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Despite your best efforts, IndyErnie, Congressman André Carson received over 65% of the votes for re-election to the U.S. House. Constituents obviously like him.
You were arrested for being a tax-cheat. You were a suspect. You beat that rap. You above all people should know that just because some authority suspects you doesn't prove you guilty!
September 15th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
Wilson I did quit HS, I had my reasons of which none are your business. I did get a GED your right on that issue too. I also finished school and graduated two trade schools, one of which was advanced for the time.
At seventeen years of age I chose to serve my country and was honorably discharged from service when I completed my enlistment. Then I went to collage for a while…oh by the way I quit collage too. Again I had my reasons.
I never lived off of the tit of local government Wilson, did you?
I never consorted with political purveyors of ill gotten goods as you have Wilson, I made my own way. I did a pretty good job of taking care of myself and family. I have three kids, all finished HS and two went to collage. One has her masters.
Unlike you I never returned back to Mommies house when times got tough but… I do care for my Mother and make sure her needs are met.
I made my own way and I'm not ashamed to say so.
In what service did you serve Wilson?
What collage did you get your degree from Wilson?
Other than wasting the tax payers money where did you work before retiring?
How’s Mommies house Wilson?
How hard did you work to raise a family?
Did you provide for anyone other than yourself?
Try if you want Wilson…I’ve done more with my time on this earth then you could ever hope to.
September 15th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
If you can't even spell “college” correctly, we know why you dropped out! LOL
P.S. My mother died several years ago – but glad to hear yours is hanging in there!
September 15th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Wilson I didn't beat any rap. The charges were dismissed before I ever went before a Judge. Why? Because the Prosecutor dismissed the charges on his own. My attorney didn’t even get a chance to ask for a dismissal.
When the State of Indiana presented their evidence to the Prosecutor he dismissed the case. Why? Because the State Investigators made a blatant mistake and they confirmed that with the Prosecutor.
If the information provided to the prosecutor were right I would have netted in excess of more than a Million dollars more than I claimed that year. Do you really think they would have dismissed if it were true? I wish I could made that kind of money.
If the case had gone forward I would have been found not guilty and I would have had a strong case against the state.
September 15th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Please excuse my poor spelling Wilson.
Care to answer my questions? Didn't think so.
How is Mommies house… Wilson?
September 15th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Dunno. My mother's house in Shelbyville was sold over 10 years ago…
What's your point, IndyErnie?
September 15th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
I know where Andre allegedly received his degrees, Wilson. I also know that Andre's command of the spoken word makes his late grandmother sound like a Rhodes scholar.
September 15th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
I know that Andre allegedly received those degrees, Wilson. I also know that Andre's command of the spoken word makes his late grandmother sound like a Rhodes scholar.
September 15th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Over 65% of the voters liked what Congressman André Carson said to win re-election…
September 15th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Tea party. Ever see so many white people with fanny packs and poorly written signs?? Nascar and Fox should be proud of their audience!
September 15th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Tea party…ever see so many fat white people with beards and fanny packs carrying around poorly spelled dumb signs?? Nascar and Fox should be proud of their audience.
September 15th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Wanna say it one more time?
September 16th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
pure genius: A must watch if you think the Tea party's will be effective (or not):
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=7396
September 16th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
pure genius: A must watch if you think the Tea party's will be effective (or not):
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=7396