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Showdown in Carson City

Normally Rotary Club meetings are pretty routine, but there was an interesting exchange between Indiana 7th District Congressman Andre Carson and local citizen Gerry Mann.   Carson addressed the Rotarians on health care.   Mann wanted to argue some of the stats regarding the uninsured and that led to the following…

Carson-Mann Exchange

Carson later answered questions for us guys in the press.

Carson Interview

And they say Rotary is boring.

  • wilson46201

    Congressman André Carson will have a call-in Radio Townhall on Thursday, Aug.27 at 1-3pm on Radio 1310 (AM band)

  • Fact Checker

    This is why I am proud to have supported and voted for Congressman Carson. Despite attempts by an individual to disrupt the flow of info, Andre maintained his cool, remained respectful and still imparted lots of info re: the proposed changes in healthcare. I wonder if Gerry Mann even lives in the 7th district.

  • Fact Checker

    I have been informed that Gerry Mann lives in Danny Burton's district. Perhaps he should go to one of his meetings…Oh, I forgot, Danny is bothering with healthcare. He is too involved in celebrity golf tournaments….

  • Rico

    Yeah, Andre's almost as good at spewing the Dem talking points as Barry is reading a teleprompter. And he almost lies as well, too. That BS number of 47 million does include illegal immigrants. Even his party's leaders don't dispute that.
    I would love to see an honest debate with Carson on this issue. And I'd like to know if he's even going to read the bill he signed. Andre had a chance to actually think and act independently in Congress and, perhaps, even make a name for himself. Instead, he takes after his grandmother and walks lockstep with the liberal Dem leadership–further selling his constituents down the river. What a hack!

  • Dave

    Absolute BS! So, the Congressman says he's no educator but claims to be holding class where some “students” (i.e. Mr. Mann) are disruptive ?!? You've got to be f*#k&ng kidding me? At any rate, you'd expect a teacher to be familiar with the material…

    Mr. Mann is a citizen, he is not Rep. Carson's: student, child, employee, underling, etc. An attentive representative would've responded with some sense of responsibility to a constituent, like offering to get back with him on page 16, etc.

    Rather than power tripping on the we've got a “insurance industry plant” here (read: liar); why not trust & then verify Mann's business man claim?

    No open health care classrooms er forums for Rep. Carson? It's not “about you” representative, it's about the people. People of the 7th District are constituents, not constitu-ain'ts.

    Here's what death panelists can't handle & don't want to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZgKb597r8

  • wilson46201

    http://www.gerrymann.com/Thugs.htm
    http://www.gerrymann.com/about.htm
    http://www.mann-properties.com/land.asp?CatID=5
    Gerry Mann is a very wealthy Republican real-estate developer who doesn't even live in the 7th District… The current healthcare system works very well for the super-rich like him – it's the rest of the citizens who need cheaper and better healthcare.

  • IndyErnie

    Fact Checker you couldn't be father from the truth. I attended a town hall meeting hosted by Dan Burton. Burton explained the proposal in depth to those in attendance. Check where I live FC if you want, all you need to do is ask Wilson.
    I live in the 7th but had to attend a meeting in the 5th to get answers to my questions…Why?!!! Because Carson won't host a meeting in the 7th… that's why.
    Andre Carson knows that his constituency is against this health care proposal. So instead of hosting a meeting in public he goes on a radio show that is known for cutting off listeners who don't agree with the host. Then the host trash talks the caller after hanging up on them.
    Andre Carson is a coward when it comes to answering to his constituency. Instead of admitting his ignorance he threatens or signals for staff to come to his aid when confronted. He did so in this exchange the staff member can be heard at the end.
    I don't know what you heard but I heard Andre Carson argue with a senior US citizen. If Andre Carson was open minded he would have heard the man out instead of talking over him and being disrespectful of our senior citizens.
    The man may have given Carson some insight but that's hard to do with someone who insists that he smarter than 95% of the population.
    Andre Carson is doing as he is told by the Speaker Of The House. Come hell or high water Andre Carson plans on doing as he is instructed.
    Those of us living in the 7th have no representation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Stone/27307256 Matt Stone

    Cmon Rico, no one in Congress reads those bills. At all. Any of them. This whole “omgzers THOUSAND PAGES?!!?!!?!?!?” is insane, because most major pieces of legislation are that long. As Abdul said himself a while back, the USA PATRIOT ACT is a fraction the size of any of the health care bills, but no one read that either (or, for that matter, voted against it).

    Now, if that's how our national government should work or not, that's a different issue all together. But rest assured that the Republicans in Congress read the bills they vote on as often as the Democrats.

  • Rico

    I'm sorry, Matt, but no other bill in my life(and probably yours) will have such a profound effect on the future of this once-great nation as this one will. I don't care if Andre doesn't read the bill renaming a post office branch after is grandmother. This, however, is far too important to just accept his illiteracy.

  • wilson46201

    Ronald Reagan warned years ago if Medicare passed, it'd lead to “socialized medicine” and government takeover of medicine and lead to the loss of American Freedom as we knew it…
    That was a false prediction back then and the same line used today is just as false!

  • http://www.mcdonalds.com/ Name

    Wow. That gerry guy is off his rocker. COO-KOO COO-KOO

  • Dave

    Maybe that was Gerry Man's answer to gerrymandering (vs. jurisdictionally reconciled districts)… No matter, he's a right to appeal to members of Congress about whose votes he's concerned- an American thing.

    Wealth is not illegal; but it's a marker for covetous fascists working as shake down artists. And misery is not the destination of a free people.

    Since some of you claim “to know,” show us “the numbers,” at which someone is “poor” or “rich,” the fuzzy terminology of condescension.

    And for ye who reject the tyranny of faux-gressive liberals (consider me-self a classic liberal), don't accept that crap. Piss on that hatriotism BS! America is still here & the times we live in are no less yours.

  • Fact Checker

    You missed the point, Dumbass Dave…he is not even Carson's constituent. Let him take it to Danny Burton.

  • IndyErnie

    You miss the point DUMBASS CHECKER.
    Carson won't hold a PUBLIC Town hall meeting for his constituents. Burton DID and several of us from the 7th went to his meeting for the answers that Carson won't provide.

  • wilson46201
  • Think Again

    I've known Gerry Mann for 25 years. Nice enough guy, but somewhere to the right of Gene Autry. He is a wealthy, mostly-Republican developer, with a decent business reputation. Who's always lived outside the Indy-center-Congressional district.

    He has a right to attend any public forum like this, and raise questions. I think he was there because he's been a Rotarian for umpteen years, so it was his club's meeting which Carson addressed. I must say Mann spoke respectfully and with a civil tone, quite unlike many of the train wrecks we've seen on TV recently. The Stepford-wife at Barney Frank's Town Hall could take some civility lessons.

    But Mann has a responsibility to come informed, and he was poorly informed. He had the “Page 14” talking point from the health insurance industry group, but he had no idea what it meant. It contained erroneous and incomplete information.

    I may trek up to one of Danny Burton's town hall meetings, even though he's outside my district. He held one today with Buyer, and Buyer was on the radio telling folks how he knew “Obama's plan was leading us to socialized medicine.”

    So you see–ridiculous claims and talking points aside, some wealthy developers and Buyer see one thing in this debate: their cushy way of life is changing, and they don't like it.

    I rarely take up Andre Carson's battles–but on this one, he's 100% correct. And for Gerry Mann to say he's gotten excellent health care and he's happy to pay for it–well, I know one of his development company's employees who'd sternly dispute the “good insurance” mantra Mann spouted. And that employee can't easily afford the increased deductible and excluded pre-existing conditions, as millionaire Mann can.

    Whether the “uninsured” number is 45 million or 4.5 million–it's too many. Tens of millions of us are woefully under-insured, likely including Mann's employees. We're paying more for premiuims, more for dedictibles, and these numbskull insurance execs are even cutting back on preventive medicine to cut costs.

    And the illegal immigrant crap is trotted out every time these folks fear their ox is getting gored.

    Fact check: who in the hell do you think pays for the ER healthcare of non-documented patients today? YOU AND ME, that's who! Right or wrong, it's happening now, in spades, and suggesting it's a new wrinkle in Obama's plan is an outright lie.

  • Dave

    The insurance coverage pap is a scam when you realize the majority of those who seek treatment receive it in the states. In too many cases I know of, people choose not to insure themselves- their choice.

    No amount of “forced insurance” will make dah-system better. Point of access / treatment is another matter, where ER's shouldn't be primary care centers for other than emergencies- handling that ain't an overhaul of the system but a minor adjustment.

    TA: Who is being denied the health care due to or by Mr. Mann? And why should anyone willing to pay be denied excellent anything, health care or otherwise? Many of us can't “easily” afford increased deductibles which is support for a more market competitive system (less government intrusion).

    Market forces are the answer; not the force of fascism. Life isn't fair & health care is not a right (it's an industry, a profession); regardless of any bogus election claims or snake oil selling. Intrusive government is a pre-existing condition that's killing our country.

  • Rico

    Is 4.5 million unacceptable if those people choose not to be insured by our dear federal government? Or should it be compulsory? It's funny how libs only demand sovereignty over one's body when it means killing the unborn. Where's the Godless ACLU fighting for a woman's rights now?????
    Andre's an idiot, and we all know it. Please let's quit pretending he has any clue about what's in the bill, let alone the negative impact this legislation will have on our economy. When Julia died and the baton was passed to Andre, the DNC knew they had another mindless, liberal hack to lead around. He hasn't disappointed them.

  • varangianguard

    And I thought this was going to be an uninteresting season.

  • anji219

    Gee, tough crowd! :) Gimme a break…

  • Think Again

    Rico, if only you truly understood…uninsured or under-insured folks cost all of us money. Big time. The insurance companies figured this out decades ago, and entered into an unholy alliance with hospitals, to allow them to build whatever they wanted, add it into their rate base, pump up the bills, and all involved agree to “accept” a “reduced negotiated payment.”

    We all have to have auto insurance to drive, to protect the innocent as well as ourselve.s You have to have homeowner's insurance if you have a mortgage, and you should have it even if you don't have a mortgage.

    Do you not understand the basic concept of insurance, and how horribly broken it is now with this protected cartel dictating rates, terms and conditions?

    Learn up. It might help, even though I have my doubts. Quit mouthing the insurance-hospital industries' talking points.

  • Taxpayer 834512

    The anger in the town halls and protests is largely the culmination of bipartisan overspending and engorged government. Check one out yourself. The icing on the cake is the galling propect (not passed, nor not ruled-out), of “counseling” for those who've historically been our most productive citizens- our seniors. Those who've had more access to benefits subsidizing single parenting, illegal immigration, or simply not working don't appear to be the focus of additional “counseling”.
    .
    Whether it's overtly or latently, redistributing, socializing, “sharing goodies”, or whatever we want to call it- I suggest much broader means-testing for ALL government services for all Americans. Maybe universal means-testing?
    .
    An excellent start in fairness and compassion would be passing universal health care. Given current economics, government's universal inefficiency and tendency to lie- something less than 100 pages, doesn't cost an extra dime, and that also applies to Congress sounds universally readable and applicable.
    .
    So- are we ALL still in this together? universally?

  • Dave

    So insurance is the problem (vs. corruption of the industry & others like pharma, by / with govt.)? Do people have a “right” to LTD, life insurance, trip cancellation, pet coverage & all other forms of insurance?

    When did a deficit buried government become the answer to what is really a cost problem; where history favors free market solutions?

    Government is the morbidly sized patient pretending to know what's best for the rest of us, as it dribbles freshly printed currency from its gluttonous jowls? “Government run,” ain't pretty & is not the answer to a serious question.

  • Dave

    There's a major difference between an insurance company vs. governemnt handling health issues. You can own shares of and sue an insurance companies; who unfortunately & routinely settle frivolous suits (torte reform).

    Here's yet another tale of “government run” or “run down,” from across the pond:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209034/The-ba...

  • John Howard

    Hmm, I'm not wealthy and the current healthcare system works very well for me.

    Most notably, I don't have some unknown government bureaucrat somewhere in DC deciding what I can and cannot get treated for, where, or by whom. I have avenues of appeal should I ever dispute the decisions of my healthcare provider, and I have the option to pick another one if this one is unsatisfactory.

    Most amazing of all, I pay for it myself instead of taking money from others to pay for it.

  • John Howard

    Who's richer,

    Gerry Mann

    or members of Congress:

    http://www.rollcall.com/features/Guide-to-Congr

  • http://www.hoosiersforfairtaxation.com/ melyssa

    Andre does seem to be Nazi Pelosi's submissive.

  • Rico

    Our hospital emergency rooms are filled with illegal immigrants using them for primary care, costing this country billions annually. I, unlike yourself(TA), think independently and don't need talking points.

  • Dobie

    A few things:

    No one, including Mr. Mann, suggested that the current health care bills included coverage for illegal immigrants. None of them do. However, when bringing up the number of people who are currently uninsured – that number does include people who are here illegally.

    Many people – posters on this forum included – have mentioned the need to reduce the amount of money spent on healthcare. There is no evidence that any of the healthcare bills would actually save money. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office (a non-partisan agency), healthcare spending would increase. While supporters of the plan have toted various amounts of savings – no one that I could find would actually say how these savings would be realized. If anyone has found actual information on where these savings would come from – I would love to see it.

    There are provisions in at least one bill to help subsidize the costs of insurance for families making over $80,000. I don't know about you, but I don't want to pay taxes to help people that make that much money pay for anything. Skip the trip to Disneyland this year and get your own insurance.

    For those people who do get plans through their work, there are ideas being floated to start taxing those benefits. In other words – you will pay more in taxes. So much for not raising taxes on the middle class.

    No one is talking about about a very important issue – the fact these bills would require everyone to purchase health insurance or pay a fine. Candidate Obama was against mandates, but apparently President Obama is in favor. Personally, I am not sure if I like this provision or not, but it is certainly too important to be ignored because of stupid things like “death panels”.

    No one has addressed what changing our system would do to healthcare research. Right now that great majority of advances in medicine are being made in the United States for the simple reason that if you come up with something here, you can make a heck of a lot of money. When that incentive is taken away, or at least greatly reduced, will this still be true? Will businesses still invest billions in research if they won't be able to make the same profits they do now if they succeed? Before you answer – keep in mind the trouble that “orphan” diseases (those that don't affect many people or don't affect many people in the developed world such as malaria) have in getting research funds today.

    There are plenty of important issues that aren't being addressed while one side swears any changes will kill Grandma and turn the US into Nazi Germany, and the other side insists it will save the world and tons of money, will have no drawbacks and will give everyone a pony. What we need is real discussion about the real issues, not this stupid partisan bickering.

  • Dave

    Real discussion doesn't start with a 1000 page document that “representatives” are promoting, haven't read & refuse open discussion thereof (forum). That's a foundation for mistrust not to mention creepy.

    The problem isn't a lack of history concerning tyranny (fascism, Hitler, etc.). The problem is the problem. Sometimes a bad cigar is just a bad cigar. Avoiding characterization on the basis of discomfort is no answer for the victims of tyranny. Once it's history; holocaust denier equivalents aren't merely off base- they're too late.

    Wikipedia (partial def): Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating state, worker or public ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by free and equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation. Socialism is NOT a political system; it is an economic system distinct from capitalism.

    Whether or not socialism is a political system might be debated, but it certainly is a heavily politicized (cronyism, patronage, etc.) economic system; devoid merit.

    ? State ownership, control of production means & distribution, that's good? The world's been there & failed that, throughout history, by many names & governments.

    Library of Economics & Liberty (partial def.): Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. What would sane, liberty minded people like about fascism?

    So, there's nothing about current events in DC, that warrants concern about socialism or fascism- really? Self proclaimed socialists aren't who they claim to be, they're “just misunderstood?” What kind of crap is that?

    Liberty fails no one, tyranny fails all.

  • JonGG

    I know someone who contacted Carsons office to talk about the health care bill and he was told by a very nasty person on his staff that if he wanted to to the Congressman he could just head on out to D.C. and he would be happy to meet with him…..Great representation!!

  • wilson46201

    A very unlikely story! Call 1-(317)-283-6516 yourself to get the real answer…

  • Melyssa

    I'll give Wilson this…he's a damned loyal one!

  • IndyErnie

    So is a rabid dog.

  • Think Again

    Rico, if we have to judge your ability to think and reason, by your posts here, I've had more independent thoughts this morning than you've had all week. Please.

    John Howard: the issue is not the wealth of Mr. Mann or individual members of Congress. The issue here, is the cost of health care, and who pays for it.

    I was merely pointing out, that many businesses, of all sizes, are cutting back on their health care coverage, and/or shoving more of the cost to employees. It is their right.

    Just as it is the right of over-budgeted Americans, some of whom are in health care debt distress, to overload our court system with bankruptcy. Or other collection/debt issues.

    In 1980, 12% of our civil court system's burden was related to health care debt and collection. Today, it's 64%. The collateral damage done to our entire economy, by a broken health care system, is huge. It simply cannot be sustained at current levels.

    I think the overall question here is: at what point do we demand the system reform itself, or step in with a government hammer? I wish it would fix itself, without government, but there is absolutely no evidence that will happen. More loopholes are opened up, and more health care barons get rich.

    On that single question, the jury is in. Way in. The health care industry has become the most bloated private enterprise in America, by far. It provides some of the world's best care and certainly is among the world's leaders in research and innovation.

    But somewhere along the way, government completely turned its back on this industry, and the scoundrels overbuilt, overcharged and over-burdened this fantastic system.

    So, we're number one in inovation and quality of care–once you get the care. But we're in the bottom 20 in too many quality-health categories.

    We pay more, and actually, most of us get less.

    So, it has to be fixed. How? Well, that's the current debate.

    On the more difficult sub-questions there is no agreement: who pays, how many are covered, etc.

  • JonGG

    True story. Not the first of it's kind I've heard from Carson camp.

  • Dave

    Government “turning it's back” on any industry smacks of corruption (failed oversight anyone?), the answer to which is APPLICATION OF LAW & FREE MARKET DYNAMICS; not more inbreeding of self servants- lobbyists, government & their schemes posed as “solutions.”

    It's asylum speak to suggest the private sector, net production, be turned over to government, whose only resume qualification is hyper-consumption (gluttonous & conspicuous over consumer).

    It's time for Americans, to push invented but uninvited government; away from the table and out the door.

  • Dave

    The demolition of liberty packaged as “health care” is UNAMERICAN. Only traitors would put forth this crap as “good faith.” Read it and creep:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/26/taking_liberti...

  • wilson46201

    When Dave's house catches fire, I'm sure he'll tell those Marxist firefighters to scram: no socialism needed! If a burglar attempts to break into his house. Dave will keep the jackbooted Gestapo policemen away from arresting the perp: the Constitution never mentions police departments!

  • Dave

    “Nope,” folks in uniform are a literate bunch who understand their Constitutional oaths, duties, & whom appreciate the fire that drives the economic engine of the free market.

  • Dave
  • Dave