I think it would be doing Francesco and Vancouver a great service to ensure they know this team loses huge sums of money 25/28th of the time and needs handouts from the host city to stay afloat.

From your link to Wikipedia:
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“On November 17, 2004, the Aquilini Investment Group purchased 50% of the Vancouver Canucks and 50% of their arena, GM Place from Seattle-based billionaire John McCaw, Jr.. The price was estimated to be around $125 million US.[2] On November 8, 2006, Aquilini purchased the remaining half of the Canucks and GM Place, becoming the sole owner of the team.[3][4] The purchase became the subject of a civil lawsuit by Tom Gaglardi and Ryan Beedie.”
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At least Franc had enough faith in his endeavor to pay for his team’s stadium himself.

It is incomprehensible how the Simons couldn’t make money on a NBA team in the nations most basketball crazy state.

The entire Simon family would be the largest villains in Hoosier history if they were responsible for moving the Pacers out of Indiana.

Abdul,

You forgot to mention that the city has the first option to purchase the Pacers in their contract along with a $100+ million break up fee.

BYE!

How about we trade the Pacers for the Canucks? Not that anyone in Indiana has any idea what a Canuck is, though likewise I’m sure for British Columbians and the idea of what a Hoosier is. Hockey is easy to understand and the players are lower maintenance. If a junior tier league team can bring in a championship in less than five years at an old barn yet the Pacers haven’t been able to in the last 10 in a new one…hmm.

Besides…with Columbus, Chicago, Detroit, Nashville and St. Louis within “a weekend away” distance there wouldn’t be any shortage of fans.

Bye bye Thugs! We won’t miss you!

Na Na Na Na
Na Na Na Na
HEY HEY HEY
GOODBYE!!!!

Could this possibly be true? I’d love to see them go.

We have a hockey team already, which just won its league championship. I try like hell to get enthused about hockey but just can’t. My eyes aren’t good enough to follow the small puck on the ice.

Thanks for the tip, Abdul, but this will never happen.

God, if the Pacers leave who will be the source of “all the news you need to know”?

I tried to use bleacher report to help one of my fantasy football teams before. That league was just about next to last. The one I managed myself came in 2nd. It could be nothing but…
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Didn’t Vancouver run this little experiment before with NBA basketball and now there’s a team in Memphis?

There’s nothing to this. If any team is moving anywhere its to Vegas.

The last thing we need is to lose the Pacers but I’m against a bailout.
I understand that the Simons are getting up in years. Who knows what is planned for the Pacers. I’ve heard scuttlebutt inferring that the kids don’t want the headache of managing the team and are planning on selling.
Whatever happens Indy needs to know what the Pacers long range plans are before a dime is spent.

Ernie, I don’t know where you get your information, but it’s not reliable. Three or four of the Simon “next generation” are at almost every game, and actively supporting the team.

David, CEO is Simon Property Group, has said nothing that lends speculation to this nonsense.

Their profit on the team would be substantial if they sell. But they’re multi-millionaires. They bought the team using Larry Conrad’s negotiating skills (now THERE was a negotiator–paying attention, Fred Glass?), for a pittance in 1980 or so. But they did it then because of civic pride.

I have a hard time understanding how they unload it now. They don’t need the money.

If I were the Simons I’d unload it now. Once the market tanks they won’t find any return on their investment. Better now than never. If they want to protect the US, they should invest in gold and wait for the economy to bottom out. If they want to help themselves, they should invest in China, which is planned to be the worlds economic center as we move forward – at least according to news today from George Soros. China has become the ultimate merger of controlled government benefitting corporate profit, so Soros makes perfect sense.

Wow. What a huge surprise. A sports team (Colts/Pacers) wants a better deal on a new/existing venue and rumors of a possible move to LA/Vancouver are starting to rise. No city would be stupid enough to let such obvious tactics force them into making a deal that is bad for taxpayers.

Oh, wait. This is Indianapolis.

Ain’t it fun being held hostage by “free enterprise business” and “public servants”? Whyyyyyy, you’d almost think they’re in cahoots.
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For $7M instead of $3.5, I recommend the “Sisay” or “Irmon Convention Center” instead of “Simon” or “Irsay”. (This time- don’t assume they know the millions are to be PAID, not received.)
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Dobie for Galactic Emperor.

Better yet – the Simons can be the first to take their team all the way and be the first franchise in China. Trust me – there will be no bad press and all compalaints about pubilc/private financial relationships will be dealt with accordingly:
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“NBA reality show another step for growth in China”
http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE53128U20090402

This kind of maneuver worked out well for the Irsays. It only makes sense that the Simons should try it too.

I’m with Shorebreak. If Simon has a buyer for that band of thugs, they should unload it while they can!

Melyssa,

I wish you had the courage to call them what you really want to call them and we all know what that is.

To call this group of Pacers a band of thugs is really misinformed.

While I don’t think the Pacers will be any good any time soon. They have done a decent job of cleaning house.

By the way, who’s ‘Kevin Nesgoda?’
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http://www.ihateclay.com/support-senate-bill-6116-you-know-you-want-to/
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“Yes, we want our Sonics back so bad. But if this bill passes, it will also provide several important things for our region:
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· JOB CREATION! – Construction, Service, Tourism, Restaurant, etc.
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· A dedicated funding source for sorely needed infrastructure improvements at Seattle Center!
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· Funding for cultural centers, performing arts, youth recreation and low-income housing!
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· The opportunity to remodel a public building (KeyArena) with 50% private money!
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· And last but not least… the evil bastard Clay Bennett will officially be on the hook for $30 million to Seattle!”
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Yup! Same old ‘BS’ as he likes to refer to it in his other site:
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http://biased-sports.com/
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Yup another hack who wants the government to pour money into sports because HE likes basketball.

Read all that 1st link content. Gawd it all sounds so familiar. All the cliche’ed ‘benefits’ we were supposed to have shower down upon us.
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He didn’t get that miracle granted, so now he’s hawking up a move of the Pacers to Vancouver.

Observer is absolutely correct regarding the current makeup of the Pacer team. But it’s so much easier to call them thugs, because that’s what they used to be, and it takes a little work to investigate their current roster.

Shore: the Simons, via strategic purchases and mergers/acquisitions, are already in China in a big way, and most of eastern Europe, as well. At a much higher investment than the value of the Pacers.

Yao Ming is the hottest franchise in China right now. He could get elected to anything. When the Rockets play (until he hurt his ankle), more people watched the games on legit and rigged satellites in China, than the rest of the world combined.

Part of it is nationalistic pride, in a guy-made-good. But a huge chunk of his popularity is the average Chinese citizen’s complete love of all-things-American. Jeans, music, sports…the average Chinese school child can recite NBA stats verbatim.

Think Again,

I agree. I don’t like it when people dwell on the Pacers as “thugs” first because they got rid of most of the thugs, and second, and most importantly, the current makeup of the team does not dictate whether the franchise should get large public subsidies. Likewise, the Colts, with or without Manning, should have the same amount of public financial support. It shouldn’t vary according to the quality of the team at that particular moment. It wasn’t that long ago that the Pacers were NBA contenders and the Colts were mediocre. These things fluctuate.

TA – I knew that Simons were already in China, but I think between my sarcasm and your facts we’ve probably stumbled across part of the reason for their inability to relate to the Indy public on CIB matters.
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Business is good in China? Like I said, China is the ultimate realization of controlled populations with capitalsit profit. An excellent model, shall we say, for global leaders who want to see their profits without worrying about the little people who make them wealthy. .
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Of course the Simons can’t understand the problem. Totalitarian control of the people makes a merger between business and government much easier on the profit takers.

Observer, since you propose to know my mind, what is it that you think I *really* want to call the Pacers?

Aren’t thugs thieves and perpetuate acts of violence on others?

As a citizen and taxpayer I feel violated by this band of thugs.

Not sure i really care if they move as I cant stand the NBA. But, I was just in Vancouver not that long ago and the people up there really dont care about basketball. I think the fact the NBA expressed Canadian expansion and that a few years later the Grizzlies were south of the border is all the evidence i need to support my claim.

But this would really be a stupid move by the Canucks owner. The sports by that I frequented while up there even had bartenders who seemed to take pride in the fact an NBA team did not make it in their town as they are a “hockey town.”

I very much doubt any of the current Pacers directly or indirectly committed any type of violence towards you or anyone else on this board. Therefore your reference to being a band of thugs is at best misinformed opinion.

good, The Grizzlies franchise leaving Vancouver was pretty much orchestrated and had nothing to do with the city and the fans. From the moment Michael Heisley baught the team everyone from the ballboys to Stern himself knew the team was moving regardless. As a small buisness owner I’ve been solicited to buy tickets every year until that particular year. I had to jump through so many hoops to buy my ticket bundles.

As of today many Vancouverites are very disillusioned with the NBA because the general feeling is that the NBA sold us out. If Bill Laurie was smart enough to ‘promise’ he’d keep the team in Vancouver the team would have ended up in ST Louis instead of Memphis.

As for not caring for basketball in general, I think you should buy a ticket to the annual BC provincial high school basketball tournement and you’ll instantly realize how incorrect your opinion is.

C

Some of you dont understand why there is bitterness towards the NBA in Vancouver. Some of us were just starting to love the Grizzlies, though they sucked for the most part. We had players like Steve Francis and Mike Bibby roll their eyes during the draft and basically wanted to hang themselves on the spot… and dont forget Stu Jackson running the show and team to the ground. We had a new owner come in and promise us he wouldn’t move the team and then did it anyways. If Aquaman manages to bring a team to Vancouver and puts a management team in place like has with the Canucks, it might be a different story. But for now… the NBA can go !@#$ themselves.

I’m a huge basketball fan from Vancouver, and I feel the fans here really want another team.

The reason the Grizzlies left was not because of the fans, we supported a team that at best only won 23 games in it’s entire history!

The team wasn’t management correctly from the start…for example how can you give Byrant “Big Country” Reeves a 60 million/5 years contract!!

Stu Jackson is the main reason the Grizzlies sucked …the fans supported the team every year…(18,000+ for the first 4 years). After while the losing will take a total and rumours of your team being relocated..doesn’t help sell more tickets.

I think Vancouver needs another NBA team and hopefully it will happen this time around.

I really hope this happens. Toronto needs their rival back. Just bad management on the former Grizzlies part made them leave. Such a beautiful city. As a Raptor fan I would love to see Van city back in the NBA!

Checkout the Attendance records for the Memphis Grizzlies compared to the Vancouver Grizzlies.

The Vancouver attendance dropped off after it was learnt that the team was going to be relocating. Also i think the shorten NBA Lockout season affected the numbers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?year=2009

Memphis Year Total Avg
In 2008-2009 season they averaged 12,745!
2007-2008 12,770
2006-07 600,836 14,654
2005-06 647,533 15,793
2004-05 691,362 16,862
2003-04 622,723 15,188
2002-03 614,301 14,983
2001-02 591,030 14,415

Vancouver Year Total Avg
2000-01 563,218 13,737
1999-00 569,864 13,899
1998-99 417,966 16,719
1997-98 660,457 16,109
1996-97 679,422 16,571
1995-96 704,489 17,183

Recently the attendace for the Pacers has fallen off as well.

The thought of the Pacers moving to Vancouver seems so incredibly far fetched because it’s Indiana. However, Vancouver is & was a better market than Memphis and it’s economically more sound than just about any city in the US right now. Even with current economic downturn Vancouver is better prepared to support an NBA team than it was back in th 90’s with a higher Can dollar and population base.

I’m a hockey, and basketball fan from Vancouver. While Vancouver calls itself a “hockey town”, there is a place in the US, by the name of Detroit that calls itself Hockeytown as well, and yet their NBA team seems to be doing pretty well.
Like many Vancouver sports fans, I too, believe the NBA could have worked in Vancouver. We have an amazing fan base, considering the team never managed to win more than 23 wins in an 82 game season! The Cdn dollar is much stronger, and the population base, much larger! Wouldn’t it be ironic if the Memphis franchise relocates back to where it began? I would totally laugh, but happy that the city has its NBA franchise back. Aquilini is capable of bringing this city another NBA franchise, and I certainly hope that he does. We deserve it. Screw you Stu Jackson! Bring in a solid management group that understands the game from a management perspective, and then see the team grow. No more Bibby’s, Reeves, or Franchis like players. Draft exciting players!

GO AQUILINI GOOO!

I support the Indiana Pacers staying here in Indianapolis. The Simons have gone out of their way to right the ship and give Indiana a team that we can be proud of.

I will stand by Observer and also mention that comments like the ones of Melyssa’s are very misinformed considering the guys that are currently on the team. Since Larry Bird has assumed total control, the days of the wild west here in Indy are done from the Pacers side of the ledger.

At the end of the day, State and local politicians will come together and find a solution to the CIB funding crisis because our politicos don’t want to send any kind of indicator that Central Indiana is in decline. Anyway, no matter what… whether Conseco has a tenant or not, the city would have to pay for the venue’s upkeep. It’s a greater waste of money to keep up a venue without a major tenant.

Apparently, the Pacers move to Vancouver is a done deal. Francesco Aquilini has a presser set for 10 a.m. Monday morning! Wow, this is great news for B-Ball fans in the Pacific Northwest.

Bryant Reeves, stop posting false info please. You are gonna kill somebody with that.

How is it a ‘greater waste of money to keep up a venue without a major tenant’ if the tenant is being paid to stay there and is not paying rent?

When it comes to professional sports teams asking for money or renegotiation of terms with a city there will always be negative things said about the team, the management, and owners. It comes with the territory as does talk of the team potentially moving.

However, the thing I never understand is the unwarranted vitriol towards the players that people like to spout whether its fact or misinformed opinion. In this instance the word “Thugs” has been stated multiple times to describe the Indiana Pacers and it couldn’t be farther from the truth. I defy anyone to name one player that even remotely fits the definition of a “thug”.

Anyone who has had any problems with law or been considered a knucklehead has been sent packing and the team that was led by Danny Granger (the NBA’s Most Improved Player Award winner) this past season are likeable upstanding citizens. The Indiana Pacers from this past season has been as squeeky clean as the Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson, Rik Smits days.

The LAST thing I want to see is for my team to leave the city. If we had just won a title recently, the general population would be crying out, reaching for ways to keep them here. Instead, most of the general public are like “Melyssa” here and choose not to see the big picture, but rather take the easy way out and let a great franchise fall due to the mistakes of a very few individuals over the course of 2-3 years. It’s pathetic and sad, really. Those days are gone. Referring to our current roster as a group of “thugs” shows that you obviously either have no idea what you are talking about, or you are extremely racist (since, as Observer said, we know what you’re implying).

For those who want to see the Pacers leave town, just remember that if they do, we’ll never see another professional basketball team here again. In 5-10 years, if the team is doing great and winning titles in another city, so help me God you better not whine and cry about it then. You’ll have given up your privilege to be a fan.

The Pacers are not moving, their stadium isn’t old enough. + Vancouver had their chance to support an NBA team and blew it.

PS.
Hey Vancouver if you want an NBA team serously, why don’t you try to buy back the Grizzlies. I honestly heard there thinking about moving.

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