Pace Yourself
Let me ask you a question.
In this economic climate where average people are losing their homes and jobs at a rate not seen since the Great Depression, are you willing to fork over $15 million a year to operate Conseco Fieldhouse because the billionaire Simon family says it’s too expensive for them to operate?
(Insert expletive here) NO!!! That’s exactly what I thought too.
However, the Pacers are standing pretty firm in their demand that the city take over the operational costs of Conseco. In a presentation at this afternoon’s Capital Improvement Board Meeting, Vice-Chairman Patrick Early said while the Pacers have not threatened to leave, they have told the city that all options are on the table if they are forced to keep paying for the facility.
Early says the Pacers have only turned a profit two out of the past 20+ years and by picking up the $15 million operational costs, the team would have a chance to break even. He also said they contribute $8 million in sales tax revenue for the downtown area.
Early made his comments as the CIB outlined $1.5 million in additional cuts in order to close a $36 million shortfall. Cuts were made in grants to the arts, tourism, Indiana Black Expo and other operating expenses. Currently the board has found nearly $8 million, but still has $26 million more to go as well as find a way to pay for $57 million in loans to pay for Conseco, Lucas Oil and other properties.
The Board also looked at what one percent increases in admissions, food and beverage and hotel taxes would bring annually. The total would be about $24 million, but also make Indianapolis first in the nation in admission taxes and second in food and beverage taxes.
Just about everyone is waiting to see what kind of solution Indiana lawmakers come up with. But I can tell you this, I pity the politician or billionaire who asks the general taxpayer to pick up the costs of Conseco. I have a pretty good idea what the reaction will be and involves torches, pitchforks and a lot of (figuratively speaking) bloodshed.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
“He also said they contribute $8 million in sales tax revenue for the downtown area.”
Let’s see, if they take in $8 million in sales taxes that means they are taking in around $100 million in revenues. What is happening to that money? It can’t all be going to Jamal Tinsley.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Abdul,
Were any of the batshit crazy bloggers there?
If yes, did they ask any questions and look like idiots in front of everyone?
If no, are they going to whine again about their jobs and make more excuses?
Inquiring minds want to know.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
There is no business model that will show the Pacers operation as currently funded will ever make a profit. It is a business entity that is not designed for profit. It is a business model established for long term equity growth. The more the owners can get the taxpayers to pay operational costs on the way to their bigger long term capital gains, then all the better for them. This city will survive if they leave. There is no economic justification for the amounts of money being spent on these athletes. Just because that is the way it is does not make it right. The market should allow this team, and many others, to fail. In todays market, and the foreseeable future, what city would want to put money into sports to lure this team? They are all fighting for dollars to basic survices. Grow a pair Mr. Ballard. Just say no.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
I, for one, am offended by this ‘paulogdenisanidiot’ mystery person. I don’t believe Paul is an idiot, nor do I feel it’s fair game to use such a disparaging pseudonymn. And it certainly leaves me believing that’s the one who is genuinely ‘batshit crazy.’
I was taught that ‘there’s no such thing as a stupid question’ yet apparently poii never learned that as a child. And I have grown up, while poii seemingly has not.
I think a proactive ‘let’s put the Pacer’s out for bids’ needs to be undertaken. Let’s just see if anyone wants them and what they are willing to pay. Who in their right mine would want to assume the annual deficit that we are saddled with here?
Sorry, Pacers. Sorry, Simons. Now is NOT the time to be passing the hat. We can surely fill those slots on the calendar with other attractions for which we get paid, instead of paying.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Commenter #2 is Jacob Perry. He’s referring to my not being able to go due to the responsibility of being scheduled to work during the day. He likes to use the phrase “batshitcrazy”, as if that makes him appear enlightened. He attacks in the exact way those militant Obama bloggers would attack conservatives during the campaign. Not sure what his deal is except that he is unemployed, lives at home, and thinks he’s a political power broker.
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Abdul let’s him post because:
#1 Ogden can handle himself fine
#2 He only sours his own reputation further
March 9th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Abdul…thanks for the update. I’m sorry I could not be there, but I’ll watch the proceedings! You are the BEST to be the only media to keep us informed on this matter! I heard from Ogden, he went to the CC Bldg by mistake. No one knew there knew where the CIB meets. Also, the meeting was not on the calendar, so it was impossible for anyone at City Hall to look it up for him.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I say we nationalize the NBA.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Really, Melissa, are you sure? Because the prose sounds an awful lot like Mary Jo Tierney!
And HE calls people batshitcrazy bloggers! LMAO!! :D
March 9th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Mary Jo! She’s something else!
March 9th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Seriously though, if sports welfare in Indiana is getting in your crawl, if you think it is taxpayer abuse, and you see no reason for taxpayers to subsidize more millionaires, then you need to be at the state house revolt on March 25. This subject will be addressed and words will not be minced. Event is at 11:30.
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Http://www.RevoltAtTheStateHouse.com
March 9th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Okay, when I’m talking to someone who can’t afford their house anymore, you know what my first suggestion is? SELL YOUR HOUSE!
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Yet when I suggested maybe exploring the option of getting the Colts to take the stadium off our hands, the CIB looked at me like they had never even thought about that before. And they don’t plan to look into it either. Oh, and last year, they BUDGETED for a $27 mil shortfall. What’s going on?
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Greg, you are 100% right, btw.
March 9th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Abdul, Chris, Tim, et al, thanks for being there. Lunch hour permitted seeing thru Early’s pitch & a bit afterwards. I’m with prior posts that we can’t afford professional sports. Call me crazy but education, police, sewers, and tearing down abandoned houses trump pouring more money into this- City-county OR state! I don’t want to hear that the Colt’s are working over the Assembly for a deal. I’m just not sure if the better course are the “cat shows” & “Elvis poster signings” or board them up.
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I’m emailing my opinion to every last one of them and asking why these meetings can’t be at 6 or 7 PM when taxpayers can come.
March 9th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
CIB got your blood boiling?
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Make sure you attend REVOLT AT THE STATE HOUSE on March 25th if you want to make your voice heard. Our motivation to take on the tremendous job of organizing the event comes from the righteous anger at the CIB, corporate welfare, and cronyism! Indiana cannot afford to subsidize billionaires and we’re going to expose what they are doing right out there in the sunshine of the State House!
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http://www.revoltatthestatehouse.com is updated often with the REVOLT details.
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We will announce the finalized list of speakers later this week.
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I need a few more people in Indy to distribute flyers…especially to Meridian Kessler and Butler Tarkington neighborhoods. They are gorgeous districts for a spring walk too!
March 9th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Where are the Colts in all of this?
They are the cause for CIB’s current financial problems.
The Pacer’s demands for equal treatment like the Colts is just insult to injury.
March 9th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Anonymous blog commenting is SOOOO 6th grade!
March 9th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
It’ll be in the ballpark of what Ogden or someone else was speculating: A Republican senator (most likely) will slip it into a bill that’s in a compromise committee on the last day, late at night, with ambiguous comments and reporting as to what happended (kind of like illegal hiring legislation that died that way). I don’t think you can stop them by being on the statehouse steps. You probably have to be by their desks with the torches and pitchforks.
March 9th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
I say let the CIB do what they want. But if they take public money for their own profit, advertise in the hardest hit neighborhoods where the money is going and who is taking it.
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Offer up names and addresses of those who pushed for the funding, of those who passed it into law, and of those who benefit financially. Keep promoting it in neighborhood newsletters and flyers on a weekly basis: “These are the people who took your money: xxxxx and these are the people who are enjoying your money: xxxxx. This is where they live: xxxxx.”
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Continue that practice on a regular basis. It won’t be too long before the people put a stop to CIB theft by decree.
March 9th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
If the Pacers leave. Maybe crime in Indy will drop another few percent.
March 9th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Figuratively? I love an optimist.
March 9th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Once again I ask, exactly WHEN does the ‘economic benefit’ from sports and stadiums and downtown development ‘kick in?’ All I’ve felt in the past 25 years is a kick in the pants, er wallet.
We probably could have opened up 100 new bars downtown for 1/10th the cost of building 4 stadiums and created as much patronage.
March 9th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
What city is going to take them in this economic downturn? The economy is still doing ok in some mountain west states, so maybe Cheyenne or Boise or Helena would work, even Salt Lake already has a team.
Also, does anyone still watch/care about the NBA anymore?
March 9th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
If they Pacers do not pay the tab can we file a claim against the ownership of the team and force the Simons to give up their ownership to the city? We all know the money is in the value of the team not the operations. Let’s set a precedent and take the the team.
March 9th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
SB…spot on again. I wish you would blog!
March 9th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
How can we give millions to a failed company that’s lost millions for decades? Who are we, Congress?
March 9th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Excellent comment, Abdul. You are dead on correct with your analysis of the likely political consequences of voting for a general tax increase.
As far as the “paulogdenisanidiot,” Mom, how could you say something like that? I’m your son for Pete’s sake!
March 9th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
OK, I seem like the only Pacers fan on this site, and I am a HUGE fan. I’ve gone to over 20 games this year and have watched every game on TV except for two.
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First thing I would like to clarify is the statement by flipper: “If the Pacers leave. Maybe crime in Indy will drop another few percent.” Come on man, what else does the organization have to do? They got rid of Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, and have made a nearly unprecedented move of not playing Jamal Tinsely the entire season. He’s really not even on the team! It turned out Jermaine O’Neal had a bad attitude, he’s gone. All of the bad guys are gone. The “new Pacers” have not been in trouble one time all season, and they are a super group of guys, which is a nice change for Indy. Pacer teammates say this team has the best chemistry of any team they’ve ever been on. The record isn’t great, but they are the most consistent in the league and have the most close game losses. They don’t lose by a lot which means in a couple years they could be a contender again, and they are down by a couple games to get in the playoffs this season.
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All this being said, I think this is more about the Simons than the Pacers. The Simons get a lot of positive PR from the Pacers, free advertising for Simon Malls and other investments, and probably a bunch of other benefits. I want to know how much they lose each year, numbers can easily be fudged in the accounting world, and if it’s only a couple million . . . it is a worthwhile investment. (They also have some responsibility for not getting rid of the thugs sooner and nearly killing the franchise.)
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As for the additional $15 million they want taxpayers to pay for, if they really lose more than a couple million every year, I would be willing to suspend their taxes for a couple years (giving them the claimed $8 million in revenue) and call it a day. If we could make the City of Detroit and Pistons fans to pay for half of it that would be better. Granted, I am a tainted Pacers fan, but Indy doesn’t need Conseco to be empty most of the year. It does bring in money, and in a couple years during playoff wins it will increase. Boom baby.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:48 am
A friend, real and FB, invited me to be a FB friend of Abdul and Chris. What an education for me. Jerry, I am not as avid a fan as you but have always supported our city having Pro sports, Arts and events that promote Indy as something more than the Nap town image it had when I came to college here in 1966. If city leaders had had the attitude that I hear on this site then, this would be a ghost town today. Sure we have lots of needs but none of the things mentioned would make any difference if just sit on the stoop and talk about our neighbors while we let every improvment to our city slip away. The comments on this site seem like something from a school yard playground and kids talking about things they know little about. I am glad you are not in charge of anything.
March 10th, 2009 at 4:45 am
Using tax dollars for this is theft, pure and simple. Any time government uses tax dollars to support something that people would not donate to is absolutely egregious.
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ANY private venture that cannot survive without extorted money does not deserve to survive.
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The killer is that people that are NOT fanatics (fans), are expected to help foot the bill.
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Maddening is the fact that the CIB are NOT elected by We the People, yet they are levying taxes upon us.
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CIB President Bob Grand said raising hospitality taxes is one possibly solution.
“Everything is on the table except [raising homeowners'] property taxes,” he said. “I have not speculated on the likelihood of any specific solution but am committed to get a solution.”
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http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=119&ArticleID=46205
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I don’t give a damn for the “it’s only a few cents on your restaurant bill” excuse. The very idea of forced taxation to support something that government should NOT be doing is egregious.
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Don’t think government uses force to collect this so-called measly little tax? Try deducting the tax from your restaurant bill. You will be reported to government police, who will come after you. If you resist, they will use physical force upon you. Resist them enough, and they might very well kill you.
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All for a tax to support sports.
March 10th, 2009 at 5:03 am
Here is some interesting reading about the Colt’s, when they ‘Mayflowered’ here from Baltimore.
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INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, Plaintiff-Appellee,
v.
MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL OF BALTIMORE, Defendant-Appellant, and CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD OF MANAGERS OF MARION COUNTY, Defendant-Appellee
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT
No. 84-1649
May 4, 1984, Submitted—May 8, 1984, Decided
733 F.2d 484
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http://www.projectposner.org/case/1984/733F2d484
March 10th, 2009 at 8:04 am
Robert, what do you find interesting (or relevant to the current situation) in that link?
March 10th, 2009 at 9:21 am
To those who want to know how Indianapolis benefits from investment in convention centers, sports, etc., here is some real information from a legitimate source:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1280157
March 10th, 2009 at 9:38 am
A sewer system that continually overflows raw sewage in the rivers and streams of this city, or sports palaces for the Pacers and Colts. This city continually picks sports palaces over responsible and modern sewage systems. It also does the same when it comes to an adequate and a well maintained public parks system. This needs to change. Back to basics and do the basics well!
March 10th, 2009 at 9:43 am
To those who may want to know how Indianapolis does not benefit from sports stadiums and other corporate welfare projects, read CATO’s David Boaz’ post “Congress Looks at Stadium Subsidies” http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/03/27/congress-looks-at-stadium-subsidies/
March 10th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Hello John H,
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What I personally find relevant is the apparant lack of loyalty. Colt’s certainly demonstrated their loyalty.
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Departing Indy is certainly ‘on the table’ for the Pacers.
March 10th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
To Dan in post 25. Look at posts 30 and 31. Indianapolis back in the day did not suffer the flight from the county and the extensive decay that we see now. What good is a sports francise in a city that no one will live it.
I am not sure what you mean in your statement “Sure we have lots of needs but none of the things mentioned would make any difference if just sit on the stoop and talk about our neighbors while we let every improvment to our city slip away.” I could be that we are in agreement. I just could not tell from your overall messsage.