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Location, Location, Location

With the recent rash of murders in this town (a dozen or so in the past two weeks), I’m somewhat surprised there isn’t a bigger public outcry.  There were 50 people who protested property taxes on the 4th of July, but I have yet to see one rally on homicides and murder.   The city and some community leaders have called for peace in the streets, but where is the rest of public?

However, looking at a map of the city’s homicides, I can guess why there isn’t a bigger uproar.  If you look at the map, you’ll see a big chuck of the murders take place in the area bordering 16th and 38th streets.  There are another strech of murders along Washington Street.

When I look at the map, it got me to thinking, if  more of these murders happened in nicer neighborhoods, maybe more people would be upset.

  • StatlernWaldorf

    Did you ever notice how many “victims” of the mrders are shown on TV from their own MUGSHOTS? Maybe that is the real reason there isn’t a huge outcry. Criminals killing criminals.

  • Abdul Hakim-Shabazz

    You make a good point.

  • MissouriDemocrat

    Eventually the criminals will assault Carmel, then there will be action. It has happened on and off over the past few years. The young man, his little sister and dad’s friend in the posh posh neighborhood back several years ago was the salvo in that. Kids in Carmel are dabbling for sure in drugs, etc. Drugs always begats violence of all sorts. Robberies of fast food restaurants and convenience store/gas stations in Fishers are more prevalent than before. When the assualt is full scale then something will be done! Until, as long as the major percentage of the murder rate is in the black neighborhoods nothing will be done. While I am white, I sympathize with the responsible black citizenry that are appalled at the black on black violence in the city. Obama is addressing some of this slowly. Where is old fashioned common sense in these neighborhoods. You think if they stop complaining about discrimination long enough to realize all these entitlement programs are breeding a generation of kids that think they are entitled themselves to cash from the government rather than seek and education and work for a living? The old mantra of the Jesse Jacksons fight with the NAACP has done nothing to build a black community who instills responsibility. But alas, even Bill Cosby hot shot in the foot for extolling that battle…. I am not a racist but when you see most of the major crimes are committed by blacks in black neighborhoods you wonder where are the solid thinking members of the black community and why aren’t they crying out to stop this mess…..

  • John Howard

    Careful about the mugshots. They are also from driver license photos in some cases. Having a picture does not equate to ‘mughot.’

    Although many ARE…

  • John Doe

    Give me a break. Who is going to protest murders that usually involve the following:
    #1: Inner city people, usually connected to some sort of illicit activity.
    #2: Women who need to have relationships with nuts.

    Most murders are that of ghetto inner city thugs killing other ghetto inner city thugs. We have mini mogadishu type cities right here in the United States. It is tribe/gang warfare, nothing more. Killing is a part of this lifestyle and it has been going on for centuries. Until more and more innocent third parties are harmed, you won’t see much of an outrage from the general public who live in the townships and surrounding communities.

  • John Doe

    “…you wonder where are the solid thinking members of the black community and why aren’t they crying out to stop this mess…..”

    Race baiting is a lucrative business. It is much easier to blame someone else (white people) for the actions of your people (black people) than demand people take responsibility for their own actions. What sickens me is the whole gun control debate. If most of the murders in this country are done by black people, with the victims being black, why should someone like me have to deal with gun control? Why not just ban blacks from owning guns? Surely the Jessie Jackson types would support that?

  • Concerned Taxpayer & Citizen

    “They are also from driver license photos in some cases.”

    Actually, the media does NOT have access to driver’s license photos.

    They are MUGSHOTS.

  • Mike

    Abdul,
    When is the next murder convention? Lead the charge. What should our signs say? Dont stop there, I am tired of suicides too.

  • Bulldog

    Ballard at Mayor’s Night Out Last Night: (highlights)

    1. Murders – we’ve been working really hard, but “there is no pattern to this week’s violence” so we don’t know what to do and it isn’t my fault.

    2. Mass Transit – “people in Fishers moved there knowing it was a mess (yes, he called Fishers a mess) and those people aren’t going to get on a train, so we are not going to waste money on light rail to Fishers. (Wonder if the Fishers Town Council knows about the Col.’s opinion on their town). Me thinks that the Col. isn’t going to get alot of campaign cash from “those people”.

    3. COIT refund – I know that my opposition and criticism of the COIT increase won me the election (I’m not making that up, he admitted it) and the public safety pensions are not an issue anymore, but the residents of Marion County are getting such a huge break in their property taxes (seriously, Melyssa – you should counsel your guy on this one) that it is making up for having to pay the COIT increase. When a member of the public confronted him with the fact that the property tax “savings” are being countered with a 1% state sales tax increase, he fell apart – did a Bush mumble and stutter and couldn’t get out anything except “I just really can’t explain it”. At that point, his chief of staff had to step in and bail him out. Seriously, he didn’t even answer the question. Okeson did. BTW, doesn’t Okeson live in Fishers…hmmmmmmmmm

  • Jerry

    At least someone finally spoke intelligently about the Fishers train / mass transit stupid plan. One person in government gets it!

  • Jack

    It is just another way to clear the way for gentrification.

    Take a look at what taxes and crime (redundant) are doing to the area South of 38th to 16th, between MLK and Illinois.

    It’s quite reminiscent of “Krystalnacht” or, “Operation Barberosa”…Bodies are being stacked and, villages sacked. The only thing missing are the cattle cars. I wonder if that’s the point behind “Light Rail”?

  • John Howard

    The media gets their photos from IMPD. You aren’t as smart as you think you are.

  • Dave

    38th Street has long been the maginot line, along which public safety policy has been leveraged. Surely there’s no history, from places like St. Louis or Detroit, to suggest that these corridors of crime, expand in direct proportion, to the hyper-taxing of citizens, out of their homes and businesses… Politicians calling themselves “leaders,” limit the range of options, to lesser evils or degrees of bad policy; ignoring altogether, policy that is patently good. Ain’t we progressive?

  • flipper

    Was talking to an IMPD cop the other day.
    He stated that when a bad guy kills another bad guy. That is a good thing.

  • Think Again

    Flipper, when a cop says anything remotely resembling what you’ve reported here, we’re all in trouble.

    Sure, it’s the subtle, unspoken mantra. But no one who wears a badge and draws a public salary should speak it out loud. Because when they do, it takes us all into the same gutter, vigalante mentality.

    Anyone getting shot is the problem of us all. “Certain people” don’t deserve to get shot, just as “certain people” are spared gunfire in their neighborhoods.

    So sorry to hear about the Mayor’s mumbling and stumbling last night. I’m not surprised, but I hoped for better. I just spoke to a well-connected neighborhood person who was thyere, is a longtime Republican, and was mortally embarrassed by his lack of insight.

    I really had high hopes for the guy. He’s inedpendent, and owes nobody. Except, apparently, Goldsmith castoffs. Ugh.

  • Mike

    Abdul,
    I am not sure what you would like the public to do, and I am not sure where you are going with this but will “stand behind you” at the rally. You organize it and I am there. What do we tell these murderers at the Murder rally?

  • http://www.hoosiers.for.fair.taxation.com Melyssa

    Look Ballard or anyone can’t fight the murders. The problem is way bigger than the mayor.
    .
    This is the result of too much government.
    .
    It has a lot to do with a black market for drugs caused by the War on Drugs.
    .
    It is also the result of several generations of people who live on government handouts rather than a work ethic.
    .
    And finally, we can blame government education. Do you think any of these murders are committed by honor students or college grads?.
    .
    Any day now, we’re going to see certain ministers in town demanding a shakedown of our politicians for more taxpayer money for their faith based initiatives (whatever THAT is).

  • Bulldog

    Melyssa,

    So are you saying that murders are never the responsibility of a Mayor? You did not hold that same position last year when you were crusading against Mayor Peterson.

  • http://www.hoosiers.for.fair.taxation.com Melyssa

    Bulldog, you are right. I thought Peterson could do more about the crime. I thought Peterson made a huge mistake by putting IMPD under Frank Anderson who does little to nothing for all the taxpayers money he’s given.
    .
    I also thought Peterson misused tax dollars by publicly going after me with every resource at his disposal, when we had real problems in the city.
    .
    Other crimes against law abiding citizens are down under Ballard and that shows things are going in a better direction.
    .

  • Muckraker

    Melyssa, please don’t blame ‘government education.’ The people who commit the murders are not honors students and are uneducated. The problem is a lack of 2-parent families, lack of family values and support.

    The quality education is available to those who accept it and whose parents instill a value in education, but the criminal mindset allows children to watch violence on television, stay up all night on the streets, does not keep involved in school. Parents must assist with homework and be sure the children apply themselves in school. Education must extend into the family for it to be successful. The sad reality is that, in many crime-ridden homes, education is thought of as ‘daytime babysitting’ instead of education. Until that changes, the cycle of violence will continue.

  • Taxpayer 834512

    I like property tax rallys. They bring attention to taxation even if they don’t completely fix root problems of long-time voter apathy leading to unchecked government spending. You want fewer murders? I’m up for rallys, but when will we demand parenting? You think poverty, abuse, obeisity, incarceraton, and murder rates won’t improve if we societally demand there be some sort of family raising kids, instead of a single mom with a check being a lifestyle choice? It’s proven to be a moral, statistical, and fiscal failure- regardless of race. But, like other issues in this country, those paying the bills have to defeat a corporate/legal/govenmental status quo that makes money while labeling the opposition as “haters”. I got first-hand experience that says the only haters are those that won’t transition the childbirth mandate to child protection. When kids don’t get the care and nurture they need from birth to three-years-old, it’s very unlikely they’re going to have the same shot at life.

  • bit

    OK- so can we start with making birth control FREE to any who want it? And abortions too for that matter? Oh wait, probably not. The Christian right that took over the Republican party has been too busy the past 20 years convincing women they should breed at all costs.

    And so, let’s see… this morning’s murder was one woman killing another, leaving 4 kids for the state to take care of 100%. That good wiht you flipper? Just one bad apple killing another? Maybe you’d like to take those kids into your home??

    I was never so embarrassed as to hear the Mayor’s comments on WTHR— he actually said he hoped the “Peace in the Streets” signs would help deter crime (what?!) Seriously, he actually said maybe someone “was thinking about doing something [presumably commit a crime] but they would see they sign and think “no, we have peace in the streets here”… That is the single most disheartening thing I have heard in a long time. Maybe the sign progrm has some benefit, but to believe someone in a criminal mind set would actually “just say no” when they saw a sign?? This is the man in charge of our policing with complete lack of understanding of crime? Forget lack of leadership from the mayor, that suggests complete lack of insight or knowledge. And to say it, obviously not realizing how absurd it sounds is even worse.

  • John Doe

    “OK- so can we start with making birth control FREE to any who want it? And abortions too for that matter? Oh wait, probably not.”

    It won’t help the problem, not one bit. Many years ago, it was reported that the Hancock Co. abortion rate was double that of the state average. Hate to burst folks bubbles, but most abortions are for the convenience of the mother’s lifestyle (ie: Can’t party at college if you have a kid, can’t bring the kid along to the Vogue, etc.). In order for a baby to be a bother, you have to have something good in life to look forward too. Ghetto baby mommas in the hood don’t have much of a life anyway, for various reasons. Having multiple kids out-of-wedlock with different baby daddies _is_ living life. These girls will not take the pill or have an abortion.

  • http://www.hoosiers.for.fair.taxation.com Melyssa

    You guys are all right in what you say. And the problem is only going to get worse regardless of what Ballard does.
    .
    Maybe instead of picking on Ballard for these social ills, you all should tell Ballard what the solutions are.
    .
    I’m all for forced sterilization of welfare mama’s. No more babies for unfit mothers.

  • Muckraker

    Right on, Melyssa! Sterilization should be mandatory for any welfare mama that reproduces while receiving welfare.

  • thundermutt

    Well, that’s it. All the good hardworking Republicans have managed to slander one of their own here. Consider:
    .
    I live (own a home in a downscale neighborhood) and work in Center Township.
    .
    I am a single parent (father) with primary custody of my son from age 14 to 18.
    .
    My son has 13 years of IPS education (and an academic honors diploma, and an honor award from the school, and a scholarship to a state school among other distinctions).
    .
    He has enlisted in the Marine Reserve. He is considering a full-time career.
    .
    He owns a car and a gun, and has applied for a concealed-carry permit.
    .
    I NEVER helped my son with homework, as I am already a high-school and college graduate. It’s HIS job to learn those lessons and accept the consequences of not doing them; I did make sure he went to school every day.
    .
    He is pretty conservative, and I’ve never caught a whiff of smoke or fumes of any kind on his breath, clothes, or in his car.
    .
    Moral: where someone lives, where he goes to school, and his father’s marital status has NOTHING to do with how he turns out.
    .
    All these sweeping generalizations about the “ghetto” I live in and the people who live there are nothing more than racial and religious prejudice. Folks, being poor or living with a single parent, or going to school in IPS doesn’t make anyone stupid, immoral, lazy, worthless, or a killer. Some people who grow up in those circumstances turn out to be fine young men. At least that’s what I see in my son’s friends of all colors and backgrounds, black, white, mixed, hispanic, asian…
    .
    It’s no wonder the liberals call Republican Conservative Christians “fascists”. You give them SO much material. Sheesh.
    .
    By the way…I’m white. So is my son.

  • Think Again

    Melyssa, honey, I’m not in favor of welfare recipients having babies over and over…but forced sterilization? You were kidding, right? China has tried that, for population control, and, uh–it it really doesn’t work.

    And we have this little problem called the Constitution.

    I’m with ya when you’re right (property taxes) (the insane over-reaching by the mayor’s office against you), but you’ve been sucking on the John Birch Society bagpipe on the other “social ills” solutions you offer. You can certainly have your own opinion, but you can’t have your own facts.

    Sober up, huh? We need ya to crusade against property taxes. And if you need something to do (I doubt it–I’m betting you’re busy), help out John Doe. He suffers under the dillusion that an overwhelming majority of abortions are for convenience. Which is categorically untrue. It’s convenient for blog drivel, but it isn’t true. All abortions are sad, but by most surveys, a large majority are for economic reasons.

    I don’t know which is worse–economics or convenience–both are sad, actually.

    I just kinda hate to see ugly stereotypes repeated.

  • Officer

    think again. a very few number of persons, do need to be shot. they do deserve it.

  • Greg

    Think again, I am going to assume that you are not all right with continuing to pay child support for those who choose to make multiple births with multiple dads the way they earn a living from the government, at the rate we see today and in the future. This having been said, and accepting your challenge to Melyssa, what possible solutions do you think would help this downward spiral of baby birthing babies. The social and economic impact is almost beyond any ability we have to sustain in the way in which we have.

  • http://www.seanshepard.org Sean Shepard

    It was good reading all of the excellent points and fair-minded commentary on this topic.

    I take great exception to Abdul’s suggest that if the murders were happening in the ‘burbs there would be more outrage. Yes, there would be I suppose but “those people” would also move. Why should someone living in Zionsville, Greenwood, Carmel, Brownsburg or wherever be motivated to come and protest something happening in a place they intentionally avoided moving to?

    Melyssa is right on regarding the (failed for 40 years – can we pull out now?) “war on drugs” creating the profit incentive that leads to turf wars and killing over drug money.

    The lagging economy is also contributing to lower morale and increased crime.

    “Free” birth control would be paid for by whom? Taking money for this (and for welfare programs) is still income redistribution via taxes.

    I don’t know how much blame can be placed on the education system, but the lack of desire, interest or ambition to excel in school and accomplish things in life is definitely an issue. How do we inspire young people and children to want more for themselves? Sometimes, I think many of us want success more for people than they want it for themselves.

    We also need to be wary of a statistical anomoly in the numbers that might not indicate any trend, just a couple of bad weeks maybe. Time will tell.

  • StatlernWaldorf

    Thundermutt, if your post is true (and I am not saying it isn’t), then you are an island in a sea of dispair. I commend you, but you are the minority in your area as far as your kids are concerned.

  • http://www.pamhickman.com arnie

    http://www.indygov.org, channel 16 has film of the Mayors Night Out meeting in the archive section. See the mayors comments for yourself. You be the judge.

  • Think Again

    Well, Greg, I think I understand your meaning, even if your terminology is a tad mixed up.

    “Child support” is what divorced parents pay to their ex-spouses, to sustain their children. It’s a small burden on the system, for administrative oversight, ’cause it’s 99% private money.

    If you meeant to ask, am I “OK” with AFDC, food stamps, etc., going to mothers with multiple children, the answer isn’t so easy. Generally, no. But if that money isn’t there, kids go hungry.

    Those poor babies didn’t have any choice about entering this world. So I don’t mind my tax dollars supporting their well-being. But I’m not naive–I know too much goes to bad mothers.

    But if I have to make choices about my tax dollars, I’d say, ugly as this choice is, I’d sooner innocent little ones get the aid, than duplicitous Pentagon services. The Air Force, Army, Marines and Navy all fly. Why, pray tell? Testosterone run amuck, that’s why.

    The Pentagon spills more money on the ground than is spent on welfare babymama drama.

    While veterans scream for better health care.

    It’s all about priorities. And I don’t mind my tax dollars going to innocent children. I wish to hell we could figure out a way to have their mothers stop producing children they cannot afford to support.

    Welfare-to-work programs, strictly enforced, do work. But it takes enormous staff resources. Dedicated folks, too…just as our governor slashed the human services caseworkers and outsourced some fo their primary duties.

    Some things you can’t get on the cheap.

  • Greg

    Think again, I guess my terminology does give me away. I fortunately have not been faced with either situation (child support or AFDC). The bottom line that you present, and I fully accept, is based in the concept of zero sum. We do need to make tough choices, as the government expenditure balloon cannot continue to expand. Priorities need to be made. My point is that this particular problem is not solved by merely throwing money at it. Somewhere, there needs to be accountability. I am not smart enough to have an answer to this. I do believe however in tough love as a reliable method in influencing behavior. To this end, maybe, in the process of ensuring that the less fortunate are provided for, those who do not accept personal responsibility for their actions need to be held to account vs. the unintended (or is it per chance intended) consequences of rewards as is currently the norm. The open question? What form of accountability? Without rigorous debate, I am afraid that this is a runaway train wreck in the making.

  • Robert – NW Side

    None of this is really ‘news’.

    Think Again
    July 9th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
    “So I don’t mind my tax dollars supporting their well-being.”

    Well, TA, most of us DO mind OUR tax dollars going into this bottomless pit. Feel free to ‘donate’ YOUR money to this pitiful cause, but please don’t demand that government use force against me to take MY money, and give it to someone else without my consent. If anyone else did this, it would be called ‘robbery’.

    Think Again
    July 9th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
    “Welfare-to-work programs, strictly enforced, do work. But it takes enormous staff resources. Dedicated folks, too…just as our governor slashed the human services caseworkers and outsourced some fo their primary duties.

    Some things you can’t get on the cheap.”

    Hmm…if we would return to the ‘county (poor) farm’ concept as enshrined in our Constitution, we wouldn’t NEED all of that bureaucracy. If they are able-bodied – they WORK. It’s just-that-simple!

    Example: Put the welfare daddy’s to work building day-care centers. They learn a trade, while ‘earning’ their welfare check.
    Then, put the welfare mammy’s to work in the new day-care centers. They also learn a trade, while we remove one of their largest complaints as to why they can’t work…who will care for their kids while they work.
    Once the day-care centers are built, put the welfare daddy’s to work building more prisons to house yet more inmates who toked some happy-grass. Yes, we need more prisons to house more inmates for the failed “War on Drugs”, and many other artificial (mala prohibita) acts that our legislature has declared “criminal acts”.

    Yes, county poor farms are the answer. Build inexpensive Quonset huts and erect tents for these people with “claims upon the sympathies and aid of society.” — Indiana Constitution, Art 9 Sec 3. Heck, if Quonset huts and tents are good enough for our military folks, it’s good enough for welfare folk.

    This issue has been happening here — and other cities — for decades! Nothing has changed. We only need to look at Washington DC for an example of FAILED government. DC is one of the most violent places in the U.S.

  • Angry Democrat

    Get real people. The drug users are turning on each other and there is nothing the police or mayor can do about it but call the coroner after they murder each other.

  • Think Again

    Angry Democrat has it right. Except, last night’s dead female was the result of a dispute over a boyfriend.

    We need to be sure folks are properly screened before they get guns, IF they get them legally.

    We’ve jumped from nasty verbal arguments straighit to gunplay. What happened to good ole’fashioned fisticuffs?

    But, then, that’s not sexy, huh? $3,000 tire rims and shootin up bitches, that’s the sexy stuff, if we believe popular lyrics.

  • http://www.kolehardfacts.blogspot.com Mike Kole

    The ‘maginot line’ on the north side isn’t 38th St. It’s 96th St. It’s all Indianapolis, thanks to Uni-Gov.

    The commutes to Indy hardly make Fishers “a mess”. That I-69 traffic is a laughable little inconvenience to anyone who has driven a Chicago rush hour, and a welcome, small price to pay in exchange for not living in Marion County, where the taxes are higher, insurance rates are higher for homes and vehicles, safety, etc. etc.

    This is all temporary, of course. The light rail idea and the drive towards ‘regionalism’ show that the lousy policies that have begotten Indy will one day also plague Fishers and Carmel, thus making them places to flee from as well. For now, they are relative oases.

  • IRoc

    Welfare mothers having babies is not the problem, giving them of the comfort of free room and board is the problem.

    Do away with welfare and these women, their families and the men will work to ensure they have fewer babies around ‘they’ have to feed, cloth and house. WELFARE is the problem.

  • Shorebreak

    IRoc – FYI, welfare is a result of the problem. The problem is legislators who continue welfare programs b/c they are influenced by finance institutions who get our money after they’ve financed the welfare loans. You won’t correct the welfare problem unitl you correct the representation problem.

  • http://www.hoosiers.for.fair.taxation.com Melyssa

    Think again…contrary to what you might think I’m always sober when I write my opinions and when I blog.
    .
    I am just very weary of unfit parents bringing kids into this world.

  • flipper

    WTHR reported this evening that 10 of the 12 murder victims have criminal records. Does anyone see a problem here?

  • Taxpayer 834512

    I’ve no issue with singles, couples, or any family combo successfully raising kids- parentally and fiscally. I do object to a typical, new birth single mother immediately expecting money from taxpayers. Besides the fundamental unfairness and quasi-incentive, statistics and headlines show the correlation with factors cited earlier, including child neglect, graduation rates, and criminal activity. Marion county spent approximately 25% more from one year to the next on child welfare(either 2006-07 or 07-08), per the local paper last summer. The county out-of-wedlock birth rate for Black or African-American children was documented at over 80% a few months ago. National out-of-wedlock birth is now over 50%. When are the statistics and headlines bad enough? When do we repeal, amend, defund, or otherwise find a way to stop this? India’s caste system would be unacceptable in this country. But, they have an enormous stigma against any family for an out-of-wedlock birth. The missionaries next door say it’s just not acceptable over there. Middle Eastern acquaintances shake their heads about the prospects of the Arabs and Israel ever finding peace in the Middle East. But, they’re taken aback by American families, or at least the extended family, not taking all responsibility for raising a child. To them it’s an “obligation”. What happened to us? How many more years do we expect “the church” or some other entity to turn the behavioral tide? I’m white, married, with biological and adopted kids. I’m not espousing any religion and have voted all over the map. I voice my opinion more than anyone wants to hear that pouring tax dollars down a hole won’t work any more, whether three service branches flying planes (nod to TA), offshore tax loopholes, or expecting good things to happen when money’s a substitute for a parenting. GM’s at $10 a share. Tonight’s news says Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are facing insolvency. We’re over $9 trillion in hock with 5-10 years on the spending clock before taxes only pay loan interest. Moral and fiscal standards say we make protecting children the entitlement choice, not having them. This is a long shot, but it’s none unless you participate as a citizen.