Loading ...Was Ike Right?
Indianapolis City-County Council Member Ike Randolph may face a censure from the full Council for abstaining to vote on the last week’s public safety tax. During the somewhat heated exchange, Randolph told the Council he was abstaining because the tax increase would fund his pay raise negotiated in the most recent fire fighter contract. City attorney Kobi Wright told Randolph that even though the money was being used for raises for police and fire fighters, since it was not expressly written in the ordinance there was no conflict. Randolph still refused to vote and Council President Monroe Gray ordered staff to look into censuring Randolph.
I got a copy of some of the Council’s rules. Under Sec. 151-52 Roll Call Votes. Subsection (b)(4) that deals with abstentions it says the following…
“(4) Whenever, because of personal, business or financial relationships potentially affected by any matter pending before the council, a councilor believes that his participation in the matter might cause an appearance of impropriety even though there is not a disqualifying interest under section (b), such councilor shall disclose such relationship and may request to abstain from any vote on such matters. The presiding officer shall permit such abstention.” (emphasis added)
This goes to an old subject in law school regarding the difference between the words “may” and “shall.” “May” is a permissive term while “shall” is seen as more directive. Looking at the language of the section I would argue a councilor has a duty to disclose if they may receive a benefit from an ordinance and they may request an abstention. In addition, the presiding doesn’t have a choice but to allow the abstention, because the language says the presiding officer “shall permit such abstention.”
The language seems pretty clear. If a Council member thinks they have a conflict of interest they can abstain and the Council President has to allow it, regardless of party. I’ll be interested to see where the debate goes from here. The language seems pretty black and white and not gray.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:36 am
Look, you can abstain from voting in CONGRESS so why shouldn’t he been allowed to abstain in punk, little ole Indianapolis. At least he shows up to vote, unlike some in Congress.
Ike WAS right and that display last Monday night at the CCC meeting was disgraceful.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Even if he had voted on such proposals before -he had every right to GRAND STAND as much as those runing the meeting were doing.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:40 am
Again, I will reiterate that the CCC did not vote on a bill that SPECIFICALLY stated where the money would be spent. They simply voted for a tax increase and nothing more.
Ike could have voted given the nature of the wording of the bill but chose to abstain.
However, his actions brought to the public’s attention that the COIT increase IS NOT EARMARKED TO GO TO PUBLIC SAFETY. This was evidenced by the CCC attorney who stated to Ike that the bill did not meantion where the $$ would be spent.
While Ike is not running for reelection I’m not sure why he chose to grandstand. Was his rake for voting yes not sufficient?
July 30th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Obviously Ike was within his rights to abstain from this vote, though I believe that he would have also been within his rights to go ahead and vote.
My issue is that so many on the CCC have connections (direct or indirect) with public safety. Since such a large part of the City/County budget being public safety how can votes be taken on the budget? I personally would think seriously about voting for a member of public safety running for the CCC.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:35 am
Bob,
Firefighters were told that if the COIT increase was voted down. The mayor would not honor our contract. The mayor does not have to honor any contracts because we do not have collective barganing.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Ike was right, the Council members that went after him were wrong!!
July 30th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Flipper, I understand where you are coming from. However, there is no wording in that tax bill that says you’ll get anything one way or another. Same goes for police.
It was a tax increase and nothing more. The Mayor only said $30 mil for this,$30 mil for that and $30 mil for this.
I would like for Abdul to show us a copy of the COIT tax increase bill where it states that $$ is specifically going for public safety. The bill does not say anything like that.
Also, there was an estimate that the tax increase would raise $127 million. IF the Mayor actually uses $90 mil for public safety then what is he going to do with the other $37 mil?
Flipper, your point is well taken but the Mayor’s tax increase is a blank check unless the bill said otherwise in writing.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:47 am
The Mayor can neither raise taxes nor spend taxes - it all has to be approved by the City-County Council. The Mayor will be proposing the budget for 2008 in the next week or so but it requires a full Council vote for approval or amendments.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:51 am
It has been stated numerous times in the news by Mayor Peterson himself or his spokemen and even stated that evening by Councilor Sanders that the tax increase would fund a raise for the police and fire departments. Therefore either the Mayor is lying and isn’t going to fund the raise or he isn’t lying which makes it a conflict of interest by letter of the law. Regardless of what is written it is known by all parties voting the intented uses of the tax increase.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Courtesy of Polis Politics:
The Bond Buyer is a national trade publication for those in the public finance field. To put it more simply, they monitor states’ and major city’s ability to borrow money and pay their bills.
The publication has kept an eye on Indianapolis, as it is an example of a city with declining bond and credit ratings. So last week it had an article on Bart Peterson’s $90 million tax increase. (Unfortunately, the article is available subscription only; we were forwarded it from a friend in New York).
While the article is very dry (as mode trade journals are) and Bart isn’t even quoted (despite the title, “Indianapolis Mayor Praises Council’s Approval of Income Tax Increase”), the interesting part is from finance expert’s on Indianapolis’ fiscal health:
“Even in light of the new revenue, Moody’s Investors Service analysts decided to drop the city’s credit rating to AA1 from AAA because of the “nature and magnitude of the fiscal challenges” facing the city. Indianapolis has struggled in recent years to address a growing structural imbalance due to rising costs and limited tax-raising ability given various state tax caps, prompting officials to turn to one-time revenue shots and to dip into its reserves.
“Indianapolis has $318 million of outstanding debt that carries its unlimited-tax pledge.”
“Structural imbalance due to rising costs”? Sounds like a spending problem to us.
July 30th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Don’t forget the 2nd part of the sentence you so conveniently cut out: “…and limited tax-raising ability given various state tax caps.” That’s a nice way of saying Mitch balanced his budget on the backs of local governments.
July 30th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Wilson must be drunk today, as he tries to divert from the fact:
IKE IS RIGHT!
July 30th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Wilson sounds like Julia today….
July 30th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
Mr. Wilson, it’s kind of like the old teeter-totter analogy when we used to do algebra back in the day. When the State says you can only raise taxes so much, that means the city is only supposed to spend so much. When the city spends more than the State already said they could, that becomes the fault of the city.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Don’t forget the indianapolis airport mid field work monroe’s company was awarded a no bid contract..that is the bank reposessed his back hoe……Uh Duh.’
i didnt now it wuz a city agency. duy!..these crooks should be in prison.,oh what about vern ” u pay me
5 % qand i will look the other way since u r not a minority business………where the hell are the feds!
July 30th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Wilson!
are u banging Julia?……..tell the truth!
July 30th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Wilson’s lifestyle prohibits him from banging Julia.
AIDS is a killer.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Abdul: the crazies have taken over this thread with the cracks about Julia and AIDS. Sometimes they are shameless!
July 30th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Wilson is shameless!
July 30th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Knock it off you knuckleheads! Stay on the topic or go away.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Wilson:
First, you divert the thread from the LIES of “Swea Pea” Monroe Gray, the President of the City-County Council who is corrupt, got improper city contracts for his (now bankrupt) concrete business and who was caught by POLICE at an illegal gambling joint in a CITY CAR and who has a patronage position with the CITY FIRE DEPT that amounts to a “make-work, do-nothing” job and a salary/benefits over $90K with no supervisor at all to report to!!!!!!!!!
-Now Wilson says someone got off thread?
Wilson, just ban yourself from this blog! You are a deviant, who supports the Evil Empire of The Democrat Machine by blogging. Go away, Wilson….perhaps San Francisco is your kind of town.
Indianapolis used to be my kind of town, tough on criminals, low on taxes, until The Democrat Machine took over….and opened the door to criminals and created the LARGEST tax increase EVER in the history!!!!!!!
July 30th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Jocelyn: knock it off!
July 30th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
I don’t care what the CCC or the Mayor said about where the COIT increase money will go I want to see it in writing.
“A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on”…………..Yogi Berra
July 30th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
The city budget (in writing) will be out in a week or so. Resolutions (in writing) are needed by the Council to pass the budget. Signed documents on paper are needed to send the Council-approved official budget to the State for final approval.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Wilson is shameless!
July 30th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Wilson, a/k/a Mike O’Conner, just ban yourself from this blog! You are a deviant, who supports the Evil Empire of The Democrat Machine by blogging. Go away, Wilson.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
It’s such a pity that some folk get so worked up by my knowledge and logic (and my modesty!) that they just fall to pieces and resort to lies, slanders and distractions from a civilized discussion about taxes and budgets. Stay on topic and leave your petty personal paranoia elsewhere. A couple of blogs have already deleted your nonsense tonight!
July 30th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Wilson:
Stop your obfuscation of this blog. The point is that IKE IS RIGHT, Wilson is a fairy, and Monroe ‘Swea Pea’ Gray is a crook!!!!!!!!
July 30th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Wilson:
First, you divert the thread from the LIES of “Swea Pea” Monroe Gray, the President of the City-County Council who is corrupt, got improper city contracts for his (now bankrupt) concrete business and who was caught by POLICE at an illegal gambling joint in a CITY CAR and who has a patronage position with the CITY FIRE DEPT that amounts to a “make-work, do-nothing” job and a salary/benefits over $90K with no supervisor at all to report to!!!!!!!!!
What is Ghost Employment?
-Now Wilson says someone got off thread?
July 30th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
A fairy? Nice blog you got here, Abdul!
July 30th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Ike was courageous and the slime balls that got pissy when he dared to stand for his principles showed their true colors. And Wilson, I haven’t missed you a bit on the IndyStar Topix forum. You’re mind set is one of the reasons people in the 46201 area can’t get it together. Having lived there for over 20 years and seeing the sad decline of the entire area, I am disgusted that anyone would not stand and cheer when Ike’s very name is mentioned. You’re not really Tin-foil Hat Larry are you?
July 30th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Wilson,
I thought I told you to stay off my blog. Because I have a life I don’t monitor this all the time so you post here at your own risk and invite whatever comments you get.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Seems to me that Isaac had the right of it: vote in the interests of your constituents–not in your own.
July 31st, 2007 at 5:27 am
And YOU are inviting whatever comments YOU get : obscenities, racial and sexual slurs, advertisements, etc.
A most irresponsible position!
July 31st, 2007 at 7:09 am
It comes with the territory. I deal with it. You should learn to, also.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:01 am
So you advocate passively surrendering to the worst elements of society when they attack folk for obviously bigoted reasons? You blame the victims of such abuse? Women should learn to put up with rape? Black families should expect burnt crosses? Gays should go back into the closet to keep from getting beaten up?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:03 am
Too funny that Wilson is crying foul! He gets to accuse everyone of being a racist or a homophobe, and every other little name he wants to on all the blogs but now feels he is being picked on. If you can’t stand the heat - stay off the blog!
As far as the topic of this thread - IKE WAS RIGHT!
July 31st, 2007 at 8:36 am
The Klan wore white hoods - here, the bigots post constantly as “Anonymous”…
Since Abdul seems so tolerant of slurs and slanders on his blog, the best way for all commenters is to use pseudonyms and anonymity to keep from being attacked personally by the bigots and haters…
July 31st, 2007 at 8:52 am
Wilson, I believe that you are the one that used the term “tea-bagged” on a blog which I find very offensive. And you were told to stay off this blog. And you have called african-american citizens on this (and other blogs) racist. But now you are offended! Please do not even think that I care one little bit about any names you get called. I don’t care!
July 31st, 2007 at 9:43 am
Time for us all to just ignore the comments of the left-wing, nutterball, Wilson46201. I am not going to waste major time on such a minor person. He is just trying to divert everyones attention from the corruption of his beloved dems who are running the city.
We all need to keep our attention on Bart, the CCC and Frank and hold them accountable for the train wreck they have caused.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:45 am
Wilson,
Quit crying. It’s time to grow up and be a big boy… You sound like my twin three year olds. It is bad enough that we have to read your posts, but to have to read your incessant whinings is enough to choke a horse.
Wilson, if you would have some input- ABOUT THE TOPIC, then maybe people would take it easier on you. But you persisently come on here, and go off into left field.
So, the bottom line is, if you can’t take it, don’t come on here.
Brian
July 31st, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Amen. You only come here to start trouble. How many times have people constantly pleaded with you to post something with philosophical substance? Instead you take potshots at people and then complain when they call you names. It’s called life. If you don’t like it leave and don’t come back. Daggum. Just because Abdul runs the blog that doesn’t make him a hall monitor.
August 1st, 2007 at 8:49 am
And Wilson, we all know that you go around and post anonymously, then pop right back in and complain about that post… quit the stupid games. Grow up. Get a life.
August 1st, 2007 at 8:50 am
Oh Wilson - how’s the dumpster diving on Melyssa going?
August 1st, 2007 at 1:54 pm
I’ve been googled quite a bit lately by state and city agencies (including the Indiana Democratic Party) and I am an open book. I’m hiding nothing about my imperfections and have no agenda other than to help my city which I intensely love. I have no financial backers and I work for no one but the people. Rather naive, huh?
August 1st, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Melyssa - I hope you’re ready to have your name driven through a ton of mud, your character to undergo multiple assassination attempts, and if all else fails, outright lies to be spread about you to anyone who will listen.
One good thing about Wilson posting on blogs incessantly - it keeps him busy. When he goes silent, you know he’s out there dumpster diving and up to no good. He truly is an embarrassment to the Indianapolis community.
August 1st, 2007 at 3:46 pm
I am sure the English thought the colonies nothing but a bunch of rabble rousers that they could put down easily and you see how that turned out. Viva la revolution!
August 1st, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Ike was right to abstain. He should’ve been joined by several more.
But his righteous indignation is disgusting. He voted on similar measures and budgets throughout his term. He did this strictly to grandstand. Garrison probably put him up to it. They’re joined at the hip anyway.
Ewwww…my eyes….
Seriously, religious converts are always the most righteous and indignant. Ditto Ike. But if my Councillor supports this idiotic censure I will be all up in her grill.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:19 pm
When did we jump from anonymous commenters to Klansmen? I missed that memo.
Why not call us Nazis, or Huns, or Bolsheviks, or (gasp) Republicans?
The constant hood harping is getting old. Come up with a new one. You can’t divert us with bullshit.
The topic was Ike’s abstention. Some think he was right. Some think he was wrong. I think he was grandstanding, but correct.
I read. I laughed. I learned. I moved on.
Never worn a hood in my life. Quit insinuating otherwise. It’s making a joke out of your posts.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Wilson, have you figured out which day is trash day in Merdian Kessler yet?