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The Last of the Great Smoking Ban Debates

Now this isn’t something you see every day, but this Saturday Smoke Free Indy’s Lindsay Grace goes head to head with yours truly in a debate/discussion over smoking bans, particularly the one just signed by Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard.

Lindsay and I will appear on “Civil Discourse Now” an Internet web program hosted by Attorneys Mark Small and Paul Ogden.  It runs this Saturday at 11 a.m.  The stream will be live.

Knowing our respective positions on this issue, it should prove to be quite entertaining, if nothing else.

Hope you can catch it.

 

Posted: 04|25|12 at 6:39 am by Abdul Hakim-Shabazz
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  • Compulsive behavior disorder

    Your obsession with the smoking issue has been going on for how many months?  Please let it go and move on.

  • Abdul

    It’s been going on ever since people tried to ban it in a place where consumers, patrons and workers have a choice.  Damn that liberty, it really sucks!!!

  • Dave

    It’s obsession with tyranny that’s problematic- there is no greater impairment or disorder; those who seek to control, not themselves, but others beyond license of reason.  

    Given the issue, won’t you be butting heads?

  • Think Again

    You can frame the argument that way if you want.  Until your crowd thins to the point they’re virtually alone.  It always was, and always will be, a public health debate.  Refusal to acknowledge that fact doesn’t make it go away.  

    It just makes you stubborn.  Which I kinda admire.

  • guest

    snooze…..

  • Adsf

    While this is a public health issue, it is also an economic issue. People seem to focus on downtown or Broad Ripple exclusively when talking about this ban. They are correct in that, in these areas, people will still go to these bars now that they are smoke free because there are no real alternatives. People go out in Broad Ripple and downtown for more than just the appeal of an individual bar or restaurant. However, the real impact will be felt near the county line, where consumers have a realistic option. Living downtown, I am not going to drive 20 minutes to find a smoking bar, but if I live within 5 minutes of smoking bars, I may consider that.

  • Think Again

    Not even  remotely possible.  Dream on if you wish.

  • M theory

    If you guys want to film it at my house, I’ll let you smoke as you tape the show. 

  • M Theory

    There will always be those who think freedom is less important than safety or preceived safety.

    And they don’t care that losing freedom of the sovereign individual is a slippery slope to the point where potentially no freedom will be left.  And if we continue on this trek, one day the population will be nothing more than prisoners whose lives are 100% directed and controlled by the government and elite ruling classes. 

    I thought America fought a Revolution to defend against that.  

  • IndyAries

    If it’s a bona-fide PH issue, then why isn’t it banned in toto?

    You fracking Libs and Statists kill me.  Can’t take personal responsibility for your decisions, so you get the FORCE of government to come to your rescue.

    Personally, if I don’t want to be exposed to toxins, I exercise personal responsibility and DON’T FRACKING GO WHERE THE TOXIN IS.

  • IndyAries

    If it’s a bona-fide Public Health issue, then why isn’t it banned in toto?

    You fracking Libs and Statists kill me.  Can’t take personal responsibility for your decisions, so you get the FORCE of government to come to your rescue.

    Personally, if I don’t want to be exposed to toxins, I exercise personal responsibility and DON’T FRACKING GO WHERE THE TOXIN IS.

    Where is the angst over the SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF LUNG CANCER?  Yes, we’re talking about RADON.

    Radon kills THOUSANDS more people per year from lung cancer than so-called second hand smoke.

    I can avoid second hand smoke.  I can’t see or smell Radon.

    Are you getting my drift, Lib??

    Radon Causes 100 Times More Deaths than Carbon Monoxide Poisoning – EPA Launches National Radon Action Month
    http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/b1ab9f485b098972852562e7004dc686/16f240cc3212ef2e852573cc00552cfb!OpenDocument

    Radon is the number one cause of lung cancer among non-smokers, according to EPA estimates.  Overall, radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer.  Radon is responsible for about 21,000 lung cancer deaths every year. Secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of lung cancer and responsible for an estimated 3,000 lung cancer deaths every year.
    http://www.epa.gov/radon/healthrisks.html

    WHO launches project to minimize risks of radon:
    It (Radon)is the second most important risk factor for lung cancer, causing between 6 and 15% of all cases.
    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/notes/2005/np15/en/index.html

    Radon and Cancer – National Cancer Institute:
    Radon is present in nearly all air. Everyone breathes in radon every day, usually at very low levels. However, people who inhale high levels of radon are at an increased risk of developing lung cancer.  Cigarette smoking is the most common cause of lung cancer. Radon represents a far smaller risk for this disease, but it is the second leading cause of lung cancer in the United States. Scientists estimate that 15,000 to 22,000 lung cancer deaths in the United States each year are related to radon.
    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/radon

    Surgeon General Releases National Health Advisory On Radon:
    “Indoor radon is the second-leading cause of lung cancer in the United States and breathing it over prolonged periods can present a significant health risk to families all over the county,”
    http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/news/2005/01/sg01132005.html

    Radon.Com – Radon Fact Sheet:
    The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA) and the Surgeon General’s Office have estimated that as many as 20,000 lung cancer deaths are caused each year by radon. Radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer. Radon-induced lung cancer costs the United States over $2 billion dollars per year in both direct and indirect health care costs. (Based on National Cancer Institute statistics of 14,400 annual radon lung cancer deaths – Oster, Colditz & Kelley, 1984)
    http://www.radon.com/radon/radon_facts.html

  • IndyAries

    It is also a LIBERTY issue.  But, you wouldn’t understand that.

  • IndyAries

    Here is the REAL reason….

    “The problem with your argument is that it forces the nonsmoker to choose
    between avoiding something they enjoy (like go to a bar to listen to
    blues, for instance) or imperiling their health and clothing.”
    Jeff Cox, April 16, 2012 7:39 PM
    http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8387095729360678371&postID=4154122455150166931

    Yessirrey!  It’s NOT about public health…it’s just CLOTHED that way to get the ban enacted.

    I suppose it is too much to expect you frakking Socialists & Statists to take some responsibility for your actions or inactions.

    Don’t want to be exposed to SHS?  Well, how ’bout not NOT going where there is SHS?????!!

    Too simple for you dickheads???

  • Rico

    And Abdul can light up a cheap, dime store stogie and blow it in her face.  (It’s not worth using a good cigar, since you, no doubt, will be asked to put it out.)

  • M Theory

    RICO, Mark Small and Abdul don’t smoke cheap cigars and I rather like how they smell sometimes. 

  • guest

    Oh goody, I’ll bring a crucifix and some holy water for the dungeon

  • KiIroy

    Pretty sure you already can’t smoke radon in public places. But you can go ahead and try…

  • Think Again

    Oh for God’s sake stop the hyperbole lready.  

    The world will go on.

  • Think Again

    Oh I’d go for that in a heartbeat.

    It’s a filthy habit that does no good.  Except, the collected taxes.

    Which is blood money.

  • Think Again

    Don’t assume.  It makes an ass out of you.

  • Think Again

    Please, Kilroy, DON’T feed the animals. 

  • M Theory

    No need guest.  You might not believe this but I’m a Christian.  I always have been.

  • M Theory

    God never had a problem with my dungeon.  Much of the time I was doing God’s work down there believe it or not.   

    It was the liberals around Bart Peterson that had a problem with it. 

  • Scooter

    Funny, you’ll not touch the naturally occuring radon thing, but you libtards are all over something as natural as unpasturized milk.

    SMOKE EM IF YOU GOT EM!

    Welcome to north of 96th St… where property rights still are respected by adults who have the man berries to make their own choices.

  • Ramon

    So happy that you live north of 96th street.   You belong there.

  • Ramon

    Since you claim to live north of 96th Street, why are you obsessed with Indy city government.  I would think your own backyard could use attention from out of control city spending, illegal contracts,  a judicial system with little integrity and school buses and locker rooms where teams sodomize each other and go unpunished.  Then there is the voter fraud issue.

  • guest

    The world according to a dominatrix with black dildos as mantle erotica.

  • Ethanol laws now!!

    If we are worried about public health, why can’t limit the number of alcohol servings to people in public places?  Yes, they could bar hop, but at least they would be forced to do just that.  As it stands now, the bartender, now safe from possible lung cancer thirty years from now, can continue to serve, serve, and serve some more.  All the while these bartender and owners know these people are driving, especially in no-mass transit Indianapolis.  It shows we are an alcoholic nation, when we allow the death and destruction caused by drunk driving when all we would have to do is either outright ban, or severely limit, the amount of ethanol is a person should be allowed to consume in public.

    One would be free to buy as much ethanol as they want at liqueur stores, and be able to drink as much as they want in a private residence.  At least when folks drink at homes, there is a chance they have a place to crash and won’t be forced out the door at exactly 3AM.

  • Nomoremail

     Another thing I could get on board with: Breathalyzers in every automobile, with older cars getting a five year window before they have to have them installed.  We need to do it, for the children!

  • M Theory

    Ramon?  Were you talking to me? I live in Meridian Kessler, far south of 96th.

  • M Theory

    We don’t limit alcohol because that would also limit the alcohol tax.

  • War on tobacco

    Since second hand smoke is so dangerous, I assume we will using the fire department to enforce the law.  Please tell me we’re not going to submit our police officers or code enforcement officers to this extreme danger?  Those two groups don’t have self-contained breathing apparatus equipment, however the fire department does.

  • Scooter

     We’ll take your bar bucks too…. even the Chucky Cheese tokens you carry, Ramon.

  • Scooter

     Damn!  Fire up some more of the HATE PROGRAMMING so keenly laid out by the government.

    Hey M…. I think I was the ‘northerner’ that sniveling little Ramon was whining about. 

    He should apologize…

  • Scooter

     My family has been the victim of a drunk driver, and I’m against your idea of a breathalyzer interlock.

    Responsibility on the part of adults, and harsh penalties when you muck it up.  Not some diversion program for 1st offenders.

  • Uatu

    Looking through all the realities and parallel universes, I cannot locate a single planet where tobacco is illegal.  It IS legal, yes?  and 18 is the legal age to consume it?  No permit is needed?

    Huh..

  • Think Again

    That’s really pretty funny.

  • http://radonwestvirginia.com/ radon beckley

    alright so smoking is the #1 cause of lung cancer, but radon gas is #2 and most people dont even know about radon gas! I hope that more people get their home tested!

  • someone close to the issue

    I would hate to be Linsay Grace. I live in an apartment building with her and she is even more patheric than her public persona. My smoking was bothering her and supposedly giving her a headache, and instead of just asking me to stop or move, she quoted the ordinance and informed me I was in violation of the law. She could have politlely asked me to move, but no, that was too much.