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So Now That There’s a Smoking Ban…

It’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Indianapolis City-County Council tonight will pass an amended smoking ban that includes bars and taverns.  And I think it’s fair to say that unless there is some hidden ticking time bomb in the measure, Mayor Greg Ballard will sign it.  So when it is all said and done the only places where smoking will be allowed are private clubs, OTBs, and cigar and hookah bars.  So when advocates declare their victory I hope they go celebrate at one of those bars that were formerly smoking but now have to go non-smoking.

I say this because I can already see a few places in town that have been struggling to stay open in this economy now getting pushed out of business because the people who would come out and smoke when they drink now just stay home.   Now I do believe this is the part where the advocates come out and say “there is no net loss of business in communities where smoking bans have been in place.”   The key word there is “net”.   That means some places will gain business and others will to lose business, which means those workers that everyone talks about (many of whom smoke) will now have cleaner lungs and healthier bodies.  That’s good because they are going to need it as they look for another job.   But at least they won’t be exposed to secondhand smoke.  They may not eat or be able to pay rent or make their car payments, but at least they have their health.

Yes, I am being a bit facetious here.   Most of us cigar smokers are.  But the more important thing is one of the arguments have been made since Indianapolis first started debating a smoking ban in 2005 was whether local places would lose business?   Frankly, I think the free market system of choice has been working just fine for workers, owners and patrons.  However, after tonight we will live in a different world.   So with that being said, I hope the advocates that have been pushing this will run out and celebrate and continue to do so in places that used to be smoking.  Better yet, I am sure they’ll also be contacting those bar owners and asking them how Smoke Free Indy and other such groups can help those businesses with promotions and getting new customers in the door.  I figure it’s the least they could do.

Because if it’s true that nobody has ever gone out of business because of a smoking ban then there is no reason I should be back here in three months writing about the places that took it on the chin because the current compromise just wasn’t enough.

  • M Theory

     I have no interest in drinking at bars without a cigarette.   I can have better wine and beer at home at a lower cost and smoke a cigarette if I want one.

  • Poor Vindictive Abdul

    Poor vindictive Abdul, Your buddies the Governor and the Mayor set the parameters for this, so why don’t you ask them what they are going to do to promote bars.  You sound like your little world is coming to an end just because you might have to step outside momentarily to inhale a puff.  No one is denying you an entrance to a bar.  Get a grip, control your filthy habits when around the public and knock yourself out with a step outside. 

  • Laughing To The Bank

    Ha Ha Ha

    The bars in the surrounding counties and independent government enclaves within Marion County (Speedway/Lawrence/Rocky Ripple/Meridian Hills/Federally controlled properties/etc..)  thank you for giving them the business that the socialist leaning Marion county dim wits reject as immoral.

  • Nick

    What is the status of including electronic cigarettes in the Indianapolis smoking ban?

  • Pogden297

    Nick, that proposal failed in committee.

  • Abdul

    My world is fine. The cigar bars were exempt.

  • Paul J.

    There’s a bar in Rocky Ripple?

  • KiIroy

    Thought the proposal to exempt electronic cigs from the ban failed, so they are included in the ban?

  • Ramon

    Abdul,  where are you studies that show businesses fail or loss profits when there is a smoking ban?   I think this is just a canard by the old farts who want to continue to pollute the air for others and smell like billy goats.

  • Abdul

     The studies that the anti-smoking crowd cite says there is no “net” loss in business after a smoking ban is implemented.  By that very definition that means some places lose business others win.  My backyard of downtown will be fine (and my cigar bars are exempt), but what about the small neighborhood mom and pop places?

  • jlg

    I don’t see businesses loosing or shutting down based on ban, if the bars are good business people and offer their customers good food and service. I really think smokers are very social and enjoy the atmosphere the bars offer them. Yes they will gripe and threaten, but the bottom line is now that it is an even playing field, they’ll step outside together for their smoke.

  • Marksmall2001

    One does not “step out momentarily” to “puff” on a good cigar. Implicit in that statement is the notion that one stubs out a cigar, puts it away, and lights it up again later for another “puff.” That ruins a good cigar and interrupts the pleasure of smoking a cigar. I am interested to see what the definition of a “cigar bar” is; I have not read the proposed ordinance. I will have to find such establishments, plot them on my map, hope at least one of them is in Broad Ripple, and proceed accordingly.   

  • Mark Small Minded

    Perfect solution. Go find somewhere else where you can collectively die together. 

  • Marksmall2001

    Why are people so vindictive in their responses on the internet? You address me as “small minded.” At least have the inetellectual integrity to refrain from using my name in your “handle” on your post. Civil discussion of important matters is sorely lacking in our society. Please address arguments. It is more becoming if you wish to make claim to some legitimacy in your message. I might add that all of us are dying. If you drive a car, its exhaust is harmful to others.    

  • Marksmall2001

    Abdul–I exend an invitation to you to discuss the smoking ordinance on “Civil Discouse Now.” I believe you know my position on the matter—consonant with yours from what I perceive. I would suggest we film in a cigar-friendly environment. We shoot on Saturdays at 11 am. I would suggest inviting someone in favor of the new ordinance. Perhaps April 21 would work in your schdule? Please let me know. You have my contact information. Perhaps we can exchange our favorite smokes as a middle-groud on our position.

  • IndyAries

    “You sound like your little world is coming to an end just because you
    might have to step outside momentarily to inhale a puff.  No one is
    denying you an entrance to a bar.  Get a grip, control your filthy
    habits when around the public and knock yourself out with a step
    outside. ”

    One could say the same to the smoke free folks.  Why would you want to go into a place that allows smoking?  There already were many, many more smoke free establishments than smoking.

    You people make me sick.  BTW, radon kills far more people than so called second hand smoke.

  • IndyAries

    Sorry, but OUTSIDE is being banned also.  If it’s not already, then it’s coming.  Mark my words.

  • Ramon

    if you are worried about them, why dont you patronize them instead of The Columbia Club?

  • Turk182

     I think I’m going to drive up and down Meridian St, tomorrow and find all those bars in Meridian Hills!
    I bet some of those homes have really cool bars in their basements, maybe their is something too the statement Ripple/Meridian Hills, maybe there is a hidden agenda here, and the smoke police will start kicking down doors looking for smokers in them there bars in private dwellings!
    ha! ha!

  • Turk182

    Anyone know if they make lectronic Cigars?

  • Abdul

    I plan to, in addition to the Columbia Club and my cigar bars.  Will you join me?

  • Abdul

     I should be able to do it.  E-mail me at abdul@indypolitics.org.

  • Piggery Fascion

    This is the same a-hole mentality that drives the Michigan DNR & other money grubbing bureaucrats:  www.youtube.com/watch?v=843yH_0RMIA

  • Ramon

    If the Columbia Club wishes to permit smoking, my understanding is that they must conduct an referendum of the members if they wish to permit smoking.  To use your favorite phrase, Abdul, …word on the street is that a smoking  referendum of members would not approve becoming a smoking facility?  What happens then?   I think that would give you a good chance to patronize the mom and pop  places that you claim to be so worried about.

  • Frank Grimes

    That is always what anti groups always go for, in the end. Why else have we heard stories out of California about select communities going as far as banning smoking in almost all personal residences, excluding standalone homes? All ban lobbyists are strictly instructed to keep coming back year after year to lobby to keep removing exemptions from less than comprehensive smoking bans, till all exemptions are removed. Check out this document from Americans for Non-Smokers Rights(ANR) for yourself, and I invite everyone else to do so as well if you’ve never read it:

    http://no-smoke.org/pdf/CIA_Fundamentals.pdf 

  • Scooter

    If that’s what Indianapolis wants, fine.

    Just step to the north side of 96th St…. we’ll let you fire ‘em up in our bars.  Same for the east, west & south sides…. just c’mon across that imaginary line on a map.

    Dumb asses….. all wound up over a property rights issue that’s being ‘hidden’ as a public health issue.

    And I’m a non-smoker.

  • Think Again

    Then you should do that.  Home is exactly where your smoking amterials belong.

  • Think Again

    You really believe that radon thing, don’t you?

  • Think Again

    And it probably should be.

  • Think Again

    Oh, Scooter…it IS a public health issue.  Always was, always will be, regardless what you say.

    The science is solid, and there’s no doubt.

  • Scooter

    I don’t disagree with the health aspect.

    I do disagree with the government telling a property owner what they can or can not do with a legal (and taxed) item on their property.

    If you’d push away from moms bosom and wipe the drool off your chin, you’d see that.

  • M Theory

    I’ll save money and taxes by not going out.    I cook far better than most restaurants anyway.

    Next thing you know TA, that lucious dessert you wanted or fried appetizer won’t be available because the government will ban it for being too many fat grams and bad for you and the insurance costs of the collective borg.

  • M Theory

    Mark, Intellectual integrity is asking a lot from a troll.

  • Piggery Fascion

    Once they get around to it (organised), they’ll work on repealing the 21st Amendment, reinstate the 18th (un-retire the number) and “protect” people from yet another vice.

  • M Theory

    Rocky Ripple ought to open a bar.  I’d go.

  • Ramon

    The government already has dozens of regulations on what the owners can dow ith a legal and taxed item on their property.  That item is alcohol.  There are also dozens of rules on food service which is a legal and taxed item.  Gambling is the same situation.  How is this different from what has been the norm for decades?  Go outside and smoke but don’t forget that when you reenter the bar that you stink!!

  • Ramon

    Not at the Columbia Club or cigar bars but I already patronize several mom and pop bars and probably could introduce you to some good ones but NO SMOKING!!

  • Scooter

    So let’s add another rule/regulation/law?

    And the only time I ‘stink’ is when I chase a hard boiled egg with a cheap beer. What’s next for that? A catalitic converter from a chevy for my tailpipe?

    Jesus, you ninnies amaze me.

  • Rico

    There should be a bounty on the heads of all arrogant assholes who think they know what’s best for everyone else and are hellbent on enforcing their will.

  • Rico

    Then what’s YOUR excuse!

  • Rico

    ???

  • Ramon

    If you smoke, you stink.  Anyone around you can tell that.

  • IndyAries

    I suppose that simply avoiding going into a smoking establishment never entered your mind.

  • IndyAries

    I’d buy a hunting license for that !!!

  • IndyAries

    Where is your outrage at the second leading cause of lung cancer?  Nope, not talking about SHS.  We’re talking about Radon.

  • IndyAries

    Let’s see….I can’t see what may be going into my food, but I can see tobacco smoke.

    I can’t see the electrical wiring behind the walls, but I can see tobacco smoke.

    I can’t see the rotting ceiling joists above my head, but I can see tobacco smoke.

    BUT, I CAN’T SEE RADON which is the second leading cause of lung cancer deaths.

    Where’s your fracking outrage against second hand Radon?

  • IndyAries

    “The science is solid, and there’s no doubt.”

    Still waiting on that autopsy report stating that death was a result of second hand tobacco smoke.

  • IndyAries

    Scooter scores !!!

  • IndyAries

    http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8387095729360678371&postID=4154122455150166931

    “The problem with your argument is that it forces the nonsmoker to choose
    between avoiding something they enjoy (like go to a bar to listen to
    blues, for instance) or imperiling their health and clothing.” — Jeff Cox, 16 Apr  7:39pm

    FINALLY, we see the TRUTH!  It’s not about HEALTH AND SAFETY, it is about going where you want, even though there is a health risk for legal behavior.

    You people disgust me.

  • Scooter

     No bag limit?  I’m in!!!