This will be an interesting few days. I can’t wait to hear how Abdul will shill for the Mayor on this one. Im sure that Abdul has the script that Tom Hirons has sent him for the Mayors talking points.This will be a great test for Abdul, we will now see if he is what he sys he is which is a member of the press or nothing more than the Mayors mouth piece and Tom Hirons toy.

Abdul, you say that it’s political, hell ya it is. Melina should be all over this . If she was not I would be dissapointed in her.You know damn well that if this was Peterson in there that Tom John and the Mayor would be doing the exact same thing. Politics..? as Sarah would say ” you bettcha”.

Dirty Politics got Ballard the job, not Ballards own people will take him down.

If Department-issued Blackberries were used for texting, the texts can be subpoenaed..which I am sure Bob Turner will do on behalf of his clients. This should clear up any ‘he said/he said’ . In terms of a “failure to lead at the scene” issue, it is routine for all command staff members to receive a group page and/or text when a critical incident occurs involving a member of the department. Chief Csielski undoubtedly received such a page and he too could have gone to the scene along with those of his staff who did respond; he chose not to, and in his interview with Russ McQuade made it clear that his priority that day was to rehab the image of the Director (comments such as him being unfairly crucified, etc)…a task which if needed belongs to the Mayor who actually hired the Director, not the Chief..who is supposed to lead his Department, not engage in a public relations conference. Hopefully this will clear up your questions in this most recent thread of y ours about this incident, Abdul.

This is going to be fun, I was not aware that Abdul could dance.

Well the content of the text messages would indeed shed some light on many things involving that day. One thing I’ve maintained from the start of all this controversy is that the top IMPD brass were NOT on the scene to supervise anything. They responded because of the gravity of the situation. (An officer involved crash with a fatality…keep in mind, nobody knew anything about Bisard’s intoxication at this point) and to report back first hand info to the chief’s office. To make these officer’s scapegoats in a feeble attempt by Straub to “make someone” responsible for the events surrounding the investigation is nothing short of slander and another example of Straub’s ineptness and knee jerk reactions to things that should be addressed by the Chief of the dept. (but oh wait, Straub has made it clear that he is running IMPD, not the chief)

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but only the chief can demote officers within IMPD, yet this was clearly Straub’s decision. And if the chief wants to demote these officers then he needs to step down himself for not going out to the scene that day to get first hand details, but instead choosing to worry about ways to save Straub’s public image.
Since when did the chief of police become a personal marketing agent for the public safety director’s office?? Straub brought 2 of his buddies in from the east coast and have them on the city payroll where there were no such positions before…..let one of them worry about his image.

Can anyone point out to me any previous public safety director who has created this much controversy by clearly sticking their nose into affairs that are clearly supposed to be handled by the chief??
Anyone??

Straub has done more with his radical thinking and micro-managing of IMPD to totally alienate nearly the entire dept. from the administration than any other person who has sat in that position, ever! I do not know of one beat officer who has anything good to say about Frank Straub or anythng he has done during his short tenure.

Straub is a political clown, who may have an impressive resume and many letters behind his name, but he has no experience as a police officer, poor interpersonal skills, even worse management ability, and lacks the respect of nearly every officer out there doing the job every day. Someone please tell me, with all that going for him, how can he possibly be expected to be at all effective in his position??

While I can honestly say that I don’t have much in unison with the BMA, I believe in regards to Straub, they have legitimate concerns and plenty of examples to back their position. I predict when the FBI completes their investigation, there will be much much drama played out.

Baptist Ministers Alliance of Indianapolis has zero credibility until they call for the arrest of the pastor who staged a fake fight in which an officer was injured. Until then I will continue to see them for what I believe they are, media whores out to promote their own agenda.

I would think many Baptists would have a problem with Rev Clay speaking on their behalf.

I would think many people in the “community” would have a problem with This group of “black ministers” declaring they are the only official voice of the African American Community in Indianapolis.

The state and federal department of revenue should be reviewing the non profit tax status of this minister group for violation of seperation of church and state.

Religion and Politics do not mix well.

What do the Catholic, Methodist, Hindu, Morman, Muslim and others think of this group actively and overtly mixing politics with religion.

What do you think the NAACP, Urban League, Black Expo, Black Caucus and others think of this group of ministers speaking on their behalf?

You guys can laugh all you want at the BMA, but they can bring out the vote. They are idiots and self serveing dudes at best,however they do have some power in the community. The BMA can be a game change.I hate to admit it

Using spell check and not rambling might help you convey your message….what did you say?

Are you stoned? I’ve seen the videotape on Ch. 59 showing two of the three demoted brass walking around at the scene. If they weren’t there in their official capacities, they were loitering.

I’m told by a friendly LEO brass, that if anyone wants to see those texts, an FOI request would suffice. They can and will black-out anything that they reasonably believe could be viewed as “national security,” “open for litigation,” or similar issues. But anything un-redacted might prove a pattern. Or intent.

And as I’ve told my kids more than once: why the hell text when the subject is critical? Are these grown adults at IMPD or kids? For crying out loud.

I’m with you, Abdul. The most-troubling portion of ths entire mess, is the alleged attempts by the chief and Straub to protect his image. If true, they should both be fired. I hope it’s not true.

Do you know anything about Baptists, Nick? Many different branches, sects and leaders. Some are extremely small–and some hand out titles like candy: “Bishop” and “Dr.” being among those cheap titles in some denominations.

The Southern Baptists are America’s biggest congregation–I don’t think these ministers are part of that denomination.

DirtyD–prove it. What vote do they bring out? I’ve heard this claim for years….their influence is dwindling, not increasing. I know members of those congregations who laugh at these ministers’ public pronouncements.

They don’t have as much influence with the core constituency as the Carson forces and certain ward chairs like Ms. Sloss-Tanner. That’s where the GOTV power is.

(This is where Rico or Ernie scream about voter fraud….) (Again)
(Without proof) (Again)

Rev. Clay and Mmoja Ajabu and these other self proclaimed ministers don’t deserve the amount of print,radio or TV time they thrive upon.

The media gives them some creditability by covering all their publicity stunts without any meaningful questioning or significant rebuttals from the Ballard administration.

All show, no substance.

chris rock niggers vs black people

http://vodpod.com/watch/1756476-chris-rock-niggers-vs-black-people

So, TA, what was their “official” capacity? Do you have something of substance to refute my claim that they were there to gather info about a serious incident? Is it your position that any brass on the scene should have had their nose in everything by standing over each investigator or person taking a measurement? Whether they were there as supervisors or as representitives of the administrative arm of the dept. Keeping out of the way and asking questions when and where appropriate is a sign of someone who knows to let someone trained to do their job, do it. I fail to see where a few seconds of news footage played on TV gives any kind of accurate depiction of their role or what they were doing while on the scene. And no, I’m not stoned.

Prove it? Are you serious. The congreations are Carsons voters. The congregations do exactly what the ministers tell them to do. You know that. They are kerks, but they do have the power to mover folks. Look at the Obama numbers in Marion County .

Glad you’re sober. Start acting like it.

Anyone with common sense who sees 3 gold-leafed-personnel at a crash site, can rightfully assume they’re there to observe. Or direct. Or report. Or any combo of the three.

The disturbing allegations re: Straub and “protecting his image,” cause much concern. Maybe, if one or more of those brass hadn’t been called back to HQ, they could’ve properly directed crash scene activities and Officer Bisard’s situation. Someone sure as hell should’ve.

I’m assuming you’re an LEO/spouse. Regardless, please don’t expect taxpayers to abandon their common sense while we view these reports. Three brass at a crash scene–isn’t that a lot? It seems like it to me. An objective person can easily conclude that there’s a lot of ass-covering going on. And whatever their objective, I’m hoping they get out of the way and let officers do their jobs.

But increasingly, it appears, few or no IMPD personnel did the proper job that day. General Orders and common sense, let alone chain-of-evidence protection, demanded more-stringent activities by IMPD that day. I hope and trust procedures will be upgraded to prevent the kinds of decisions made that day.

It’s all sad. Don’t make it worse by asking us to suspend reality.

You get an “Amen” here

I’m tired of claims that a handful of ministers move votes. The evidence just doesn’t support it.

Do you know anyone in those congregations? I do.

TA yo about as sharp as a wet rag. Ever hear of julia and andre carson?

rumor has it that 59 has info on a 3rd party test of Bisard’s blood. maybe the FBI and it tested .019 not .19.

TA, nobody is asking you to suspend anything much less reality, but just because many people want to believe things happened a certain way doesn’t make it a reality.

Here’s a question for you though; yes there were 3 gold leafed personnel there, all received a page that went out to everyone once the severity of the situation was established, so why not all 3 show up? why didn’t more? Are they all supposed to get on the phones and figure out who is going to respond before going? That’s wasted time.

I maintain that whether 2 or all 3 were called back to the chief’s office, it makes no difference, they were not there to run the scene. They have trained investigators there to do that. and before you harp on what a lousy job all of them did that day, let me point out a couple of things. They followed protocol, to the letter. Does the protocol need to change?….OBVIOUSLY, YES!!
No one there picked up on the fact that Bisard was drunk because he is a functioning alcoholoic. His baseline is most likely a number that would render most of us under the table. The fact that he was drunk and it wasn’t detected until a blood draw is nobody’s fault or lack of paying attention. Nobody there witnessed or observed any behavior whatsoever that would indicate that Bisard was impaired or intoxicated…again a functioning alcoholic.

When was there ever a chain of evidence concern? Are you aware of something that has not yet been reported? Bisard was accompanied by a Lawrence officer to the Occ Health office to be checked out. When they learned of the fatality, Bisard was read the fatal crash implied consent (its different than the OWI implied consent) Law and protocol requires that anyone involved in a fatality crash have a blood draw to rule out drugs or alcohol as a contributing factor…AGAIN they weren’t drawing his blood because they thought he was drunk, they followed protocol. If he had exhibited signs of impairment, they would have given him a breath test at the scene and documented what signs of impairment were observed as well as the result of the breath test. THEN they could have taken him to a certified location and had a certified person take his blood to be used in a criminal case. Again, where does the chain of evidence thing come into play?

Should the protocol be changed? ABSOLUTELY. Did the officers that day do anything wrong, no! Do any one of the 3 brass that were there deserve to be thrown under the bus? NO! Was there ass covering going on that day? No! Remember, they didn’t find out Bisard’s BAC until a few days later. So what were they trying to cover up?

The fact that Bisard was drunk that day is indisputable, and I find it disgusting! That there was a loss of life is even more heartwrenching and demanding of change. Nobody is expecting the taxpayers to do anything regarding common sense, but keep in mind that these reports we all see from the media are nothing more than that, reports. The accuracy of the info or the opinion the report casts should not have been used to demote these officers. They did nothing wrong. Tell me how objective somone is when they make a knee jerk reaction before having all the facts in, just to save face with the public (Straub) Hell, Straub even demoted and removed Lt Crooks from the FACT team before realizing the Lt. wasn’t even on the scene (big OOOPS)

Still sober, and still acting like it.

Nah, you’re not, but that’s beside the point.

Protocol was followed? That’s not what I’ve been told.

As for brass on the scene–your argument does not pass the common sense test. Not even close.

Chain-of-evidence problems forced the prosecutor to withdraw or not consider potential DUI charges, specifically: authorized and required personnel did not supervise the blood draw. Under Indiana law, and trial court procedural rules, that entire situation falls under the “chain of custody” guidelines. They were not followed in the blood draw, thus the evidence and its chain of custody were compromised (a non-certified person supervised the draw).

You and I probably agree on the Straub PR-CYA situation. But brass on the scene implies to taxpayers that they’re in charge or reporting to the top tier, immediately.

For the record, if you’re on the streets wearing blue, you’d best lose the “functioning alcoholic” explanation. It’s not backed up by science–anywhere. It may be your anecdotal impression, after years of observation, but it holds **zippo** credibility in court or anywhere important.

Bisard should’ve been observed, tested properly and segregated. He wasn’t. Period.

Many make that error. Its .19 percent, which equals .019. A BAC of .19 would be way past terminal.

And why doesn’t the IRS strip these very political ministers of their tax-exempt status?

TA, “not what you were told.” is most likely the problem, at least in part with many of us. What we’ve been told, or what we’ve watched or read in the news seems to have put more spin on all of this rather than show facts. I’ll reserve further comment on what protocol was or was not followed until the FBI concludes their investigation.

Regardng the term functioning alcoholic, I’m not aware of the science to back it or refute it. I know from personal experience, having a roomate in college who drank from the time he was 15 and could pass the muster in class daily (not just showing up, but participating) and nobody there knew he was drunk. We had a capmus officer give him a PBT one afternoon and he blew a .08 & hadn’t had a drink in 2 days, also showed no signs of impairment. The officer had him repeat it twice, once on the same device, and once on another one. So whether science backs it or not, I know that there are some who can function. If the blood results were accurate, that is my explanation of why he went unnoticed at the scene. That is where policy needs to be changed in as much as mandating a PBT for any city employee involved in a serious crash, at the scene.

Hind sight is always 20/20. There are many things that should’ve been done that day that would’ve made no difference had Bisard’s BAC not come back positive. However, in the absense of Bisard stumbling around slurring his words, smelling of alcohol or any other number of things that would contribue to probable cause that day, who, if anyone is to blame for the investigation of the crash?

I concur with you on the Straub CYA concern. No place for it that day & not the chief’s job to worry about.

unfortunately Rico your wrong. I’m a certified breath test operator.
per sea in IN is .08. the breath test gives results to the 100th of a percent. the last number is truncated. (which means basically dropped off.) so a .081 .082- .089 all show .08. this isn’t the same foe a blood draw which is more accurate. The BAC datamaster is calibrated to read low. so with the calibration and truncating the 1000th. it can be almost 20% lower than the blood test.
Go back to basic math. .19 is greater than .019. (10 times greater). i’ve seen breath test as high as .33. one guy was a .30 and i would have never thought he was drunk until he took the breath test. depending on the person death can come between .4 and .5.

sorry, i was thinking faster than i type. should read “you’re wrong” and “gives results to the 1000th of a percent but the last number is truncated.”

He was not drunk in my view. BAC is only one piece of evidence but not admissible in this case because done by witches and witch doctors. Oh, I meant, not done correctly, which means done incorrectly, which means it does not exist and we then rely upon more reliable indicators such as everyone at the scene.

I like it that you provide your expertise…

You’ve seen a breath test .33? or was it .33 percent? Is it your contention that the person’s blood in question was 1/3 alcohol? And I don’t need reminders about basic math. Of course, .19 is ten times higher than .019. And calibration of equipment is irrelevant to my point.

you sir are dumb. 33 percent is a whole number, 33%.
.33 is 33 100ths of 1 percent. and it’s measurement ratio of grams of alcohol to milliliters of breath. it is not a content ratio of apples and apples.
I’m gonna school you in something you like to run your suck but know nothing about. it’s called henry’s law. the science behind a breath test or blood test. it says that in a closed container, given temp. at given pressure a material will come to equilibrium with the air in the space above it. the ratio of alcohol in the air in the lungs that is at equilibrium with alcohol in blood is 2100 to 1. hence .33 grams of alcohol per 2100 of blood.

i’ll be here all day.

Religion and Politics mix very well indeed-where is your head? And, piss on the IRS and their political correctness selective enforcement. Ever hear of Rev. Wright? I am surprised that you, Nick, of all sorts would believe in the Naked Public Square. Man up!

Are they really the largest? Or biggest? And does that really make any difference. One Pope or Millions of them?

Henry? Who was he? And, does the science prove that one is drunk or is that just political correctness depending on how many da legislators madd can scare? Asking…not challenging.

In the first place, with your command of the written English language, you are in no position to call anyone dumb.

I won’t bother teaching you what ‘whole number’ means. Here is your quote: “.33 is 33 100ths of 1 percent. and it’s measurement ratio of grams of alcohol to milliliters of breath.”

.33 is 33%(33/100ths), not 33 100ths of 1 percent. You may school me on giving blood alcohol tests, but please refrain from teaching me about fractions/percentages. All the other BS you’ve thrown in is, once again, irrelevant. Now why don’t upu and Henry have another cocktail?

‘upu’? Maybe I should have another drink. Of course, I meant ‘you and Henry’. ( I write ‘of course’ but shouldn’t take anyone’s understanding on here for granted.)

I agree totally with Common Sense.

Henry was just some scientist. (good in math, which Rico is not). unfortunately legislators decide what “drunk” is. it used to be .10 was the limit. then some years ago the feds came in and said lower it to .08 grams per 2100ml of breath. (rico). or they would withhold federal money for roads. there is some basis in science. basically long story short. over years and thousand of tests. reaction times and divided attention tests were given to people that had consumed alcohol and the magic number was devised. i believe that MADD was the big push behind the .08.
As I said before i’ve seen a .30 and the guy’s balance, speech and coordination was fine. he told me later he drank a gallon of vodka a day. that while driving a truck for a living. so, to answer your question MADD and legislators to have a lot to do with it.
my personal experience. helping out in the classes i drank to help others learn the field sobriety tests. at an .05 i was pretty buzzed. i didn’t feel i could drive. at an .08 there was absolutely no way. but i don’t drink very often.

you must be an IPS product. .33 is the number you get when dividing 3 into 1 or the percent representation of 1/3. the last step in that equation is to move the decimal point 2 places to the right.
and you’re the one that said .019 is way past terminal. it’s not even 1 bud light. now i’ll have henry make me a jack n coke. after 7 or 8 of ‘em i’ll still be smarter than you. so don’t hate just congratulate.

BACoperator knows what he is talking about. Somebody else is confused with the difference between decimal points and the % sign. Remember, when we say a baseball player’s batting average is 300 that means .300, okay? A 1% tax on food and beverages downtown equals $.01 for every $1.00 spent. Class dismissed.

BACoperator knows what he is talking about. Somebody else is confused with the difference between decimal points and the % sign. Remember, when a baseball player’s batting average is 300 that means .300, okay? A 1% tax on food and beverages downtown equals $.01 for every $1.00 spent. Class dismissed.

I once locked up a drunk who tested .42% and was still conscious. Really.

Hey, Ahole! Read the post! I wrote that .19 was way past terminal, NOT .019.

W565, I was told that same account today. If it is true, I for one will apologize to Bisard in this format for calling him a functioning alcoholic. Makes sense now that he doesn’t want FOP support. I was also told to look for more shake ups at the top of the IMPD command as soon as next week.