Let's not forget that other players on the basketball TEAM apparently condoned these actions, as they did nothing to stop it on the bus.

You would think that this is one of those clear issues which no one could possibly disagree on.

I know I'm wrong, and some idiot will come in posting idiotic things.

I am 100% in agreement on this column. Can I get more than 100%?

Aires, I was focued on the ADULTS who turned their heads to these alleged activities.

You're right–if they occured, the activites were likely witnessed by other team members.

And, I'm told that the activities bled over from lockerroom to bus…over multiple days and occurences.

The real difficulty here one of legal parameters and definition. School corporations have to be very careful.

First, if ANY allegations or observations lead a supervising adult to believe, that an assault may have occured, and the victim(s) were/are minors, the supervising adult is required to report it to the legal authorities at once–DCFS has a procedure in place. That procedure is in-serviced at every school corporation in Indiana every year–and for each and every new hire. By law. Also–here's a small distinction–school corp employees are allowed by law, to “assume” that students are minors. I mean, have you seen some of these 13-year-olds? They look like adults. That definition is given a wide berth by state law and the day-to-day practices of DCFS/prosecutors.

Now, if any of the victim(s) is/are statutory adults, different reporting requirements could enter the picture. I believe the internal child-abuse reporting standards go out the window, and it goes straight to the law enforcement community. Internal school investigations are allowed, even encouraged, but they cannot and must not interefere with the police probe.

Nonetheless, state law requires all school corporation employees to act immediately if they suspect that ANY student–whether under the adult's supervision or not–is the suspected victim of violence.

There is no wiggle room here insofar as reporting suspected violence is concerned. The fuzzy areas are the victim(s)' age(s) and whether those reports, once made to the legal authorities, are investigated internally and how.

So, Aires, if team members witnessed alleged assult and kept their mouths shut, there is complacency, and potentially, legal culpability. Certainly there is civil culpability should the any victims choose that angle.

I expected a much lower standard of investigation and action by Carmel. I am thus far impressed at the speed with which they've moved. We still know very little, and until the entire story unravels, Carmel taxpayers won't be able to fully-evaluate the incident and determine if the incidents were properly investigated. So far, it looks like CHS and their Superintendent are moving properly.

Much, much more will be known about this incident before it's over. And let's keep in mind that at the end of the day–whether they're legal “adults” or not–all the students involved in these incidents are under the direct care and supervision of paid, licensed professional adults. Carmel is not immune from stupid pranks. If those pranks escalated to criminal acts, I'm much more intersted in how the school corporation responds. For now anyway.

Good column. On a related note, School Board Member Greg Wright has asked for an official investigation into allegations of intimidation of a federal witness, obstruction of justice, and other wrongdoing at the MSDWT. You can read Greg's letter here:

http://diana-vice.blogspot.com/2010/03/school-b...

OMG in Washington Township? Damn.

Abdul,

You and the other media need perspective.

I graduated from Carmel High School. The community has a very strong sports culture and respects other peoples privacy.

The parents and students at the basketball game were there to support there team and players in a basketball game. The endless media attention given to a few bad apples is not appreciated or welcome.

While authorities have not handled communication well at all, most people trust the authorities will sort out the facts and punish bad behavior.

Keep in mind: rich people, lawyers, and their children's bad behavior make quite a mess even without media attention.

I'm sorry, Nick, but I've heard this too often from Carmel officials…the problem is those “outside agitators” that try to stir up trouble in the golden city of Carmel. Reminds me of how southern states used to blame all their problems regarding civil rights on the media coming down there and covering what is going on.

Certainly you would admit there is something wrong with a culture that would tolerate this kind of hazing of athletes or anyone for that matter. And don't tell me this happens all over – it doesn't.

Sexual Assault and Criminal Deviant Conduct is more than a mere prank. I imagine that the neglient Carmel school officials would like to promote the idea that it was merely a prank. It won't work this time.

Sexual Assault and Criminal Deviant Conduct is more than a mere prank. I imagine that the neglient Carmel school officials would like to promote the idea that it was merely a prank. It won't work this time.

Sexual Assault and Criminal Deviant Conduct is more than a mere prank. I imagine that the neglient Carmel school officials would like to promote the idea that it was merely a prank. It won't work this time.

Nick, if you graduated from the sacred and over-priced halls of Carmel (aka “Brebeuf North”), and matriculated anywhere else, I'm hoping that someone, somewhere, taught you the difference between “there” and “their.” Hopefully. Or you're going to look kinda silly for the rest of your life. In writing. Which is never good.

However, you're right–the support for players on a team is important. Those remaining players need support. I cannot imagine the turmoil in which they're living. And if these charges are true, some of the remaining players could be living under a potential cloud: cover-up or failure to report hazing. Three words keep popping up in my mind:

“Criminal deviate conduct.” And those words do not come from the school folks, they come form the legal authorities.

This will not end well.

I think that is just as disturbing. No other student/player (or group of) stood up and said, “What you are doing is wrong, stop it now.” and came to the kid's aid?

Paul,

Most people in Carmel are not the snobs you envision.

Back in the day, many of my classmates and I told people we went to school on the “northside of Indianapolis” to avoid the Carmel stigma you seem to embrace.(I thought we all grew up along time ago)

Anyway, what I am suggesting is that something inappropriate happened, angry parents quickly lawyered up, false rumors ran wild.

School administrators/police are now trying to determine what happened, sift through the rumors, calm angry parents, punish bad behavior, enforce the child privacy rules, legally protect themselves and the kids involved, while fighting off lawyers and the media.

They appear to be failing the last part of this juggling act.

Agreed…..this will not end well.

P.S.

Never said I graduated Magna Cum Laude;)

Now, now TA.

No fair picking on grammar/typos/errrors in informal blog comments. I'm guessing Nick would ace a quiz with 100 questions about the difference between their and there; where or were; to, two and too; your and you're; or here and hear.

Certainly, I make those errors all of the time just typing things out quickly and the mind gets ahead of the hands sometimes. I always appreciate everyone assuming I know the difference and try to extend that courtesy to others as well. ;-)

P.S.S.

I did marry a beautiful valedictorian if that counts for anything:)

You could be right, Nick. But if you know anything about lawyering-up in these matters, you'd know that the police almost never confirm criminal investigation particulars (“criminal deviate conduct”) unless there's strong fire behind the smoke.

This has almost ceased becoming a story about the CHS probe, anyway. It's mostly about the criminal probe.

Yeah, I get the typo thing, too….I type too fast. But simple grammar is another thing…I'm glad you married a cute valedictorian “a long” time ago. I have no “Carmel stigma.” I'm saying that it's no stigma–it's a full-blown, Carmel-embraced attitude. They're the ones who fully-embraced a new $6 million football stadium before they added onto their academic building, and told the state to go eff themselves when quizzed about priorities.

But this could've happened anywhere. Sadly.

Whatever it's worth, I don't sense that Carmel is trying to legally protect itself, at least not at the sake of facts being proven. For that I give them credit. Suspending starters the week before sectional. Dayum. That's un-Hoosier. Refreshingly.

The kids have been punished.

Now it appears the parents are the ones fighting it out.

Don't under estimate the pressure on these kids.

I suspect some of the seniors had expectations of college scholarships that may be gone now.

Nick, I doubt all the responsible kids have been punished. More may follow.

And evidently some/all of the punished ones are facing potential criminal charges.

And we're worried about college scholarships going away?

In any matter such as this, it's best if the chips fall wherever they may, after a thorough investigation. But if I had a kid who was under investigation, I'd probably see about home-schooling for the rest of the year. This will not go away quickly, and it's got to be hard to finish the day-to-day schoolwork with this kind of smoke filling the halls. Nobody wins.

It's all so incredibly sad. Like a Lifetime movie witih Suzanne Sommers. Only it's real. Screen rights pending/peddled, I'm sure.

With due respect to the alleged crimes, I'm as concerned with the bigger picture of cross-district evasiveness. Consider the Carmel child who died of head trauma from a bus instead of the reported sidewalk slip, Warren Central having 1-2 sexual escapades on campus that evaded much media coverge, and Washington Township being less than scrupulous in communication regarding a child killed in a parking lot- how are we to get the straight scoop from our schools?

I have enormous sympathy for defaulting to damage control mode when under siege. School systems have an impossible task these days- period. However, these are the same bureaucracies that expect us to have unceasing compassion and endless wallets when they plead for money. I think the average taxpayer would have more sympathy and (more importantly) TRUST if we felt that we were usually getting all the facts from our school district- fiscally AND operationally. Where is Bennett, Brizzi, or Ballard in speaking-up on lack of candor from our schools? If it's not obstruction of justice at times, it's at least just not right- for parents or taxpayers.

Do you feel like you always get the truth from YOUR district?

The “kids” have been punished? If the allegations are even half true, then getting kicked off the varsity isn't even a start on any kind of punishment. IIRC, we are talking about a Class A Felony, not harmless pranks. Lots of lawyering up ($$$$$) to get that kind of accusation swept under the Misdemeanor (or less) rug.

Carmel taxpayers better hope that the school system isn't self-insured. Sure-to-follow civil suits will be a bitter pill to swallow all across town.

For a high school senior & parents, graduating, getting into college, and avoiding a criminal record/jail would be the top priorities.

Proper authorities will determine the facts and decide if this should be a criminal, civil, or administrative matter.

That said, let the chips fall wherever they may. Time will tell if the rumors are true and if justice will prevail with the punishment fitting the “crime”.

They've been punished? They've lost their scholarships? Wow! You said that with a straight face?

Taxpayer, that properly sums it up for me, too. Excellent post.

Been there, done that on a school board. The answer to your question, is “no.” School board members don't always get accurate answers, especially if the questions are “offensive” to the prevailing mindset. Ask Greg Wright.

Heaven help the school board member who isn't a Superintendent's lapdog. Hell hath no fury….

DISAGREEMENT HERE:

Slightly

One: What is interesting is that no student came forward, perhaps because it is not as disturbing to them as to others like ourselves. The rumors, and the definition of the crime committed (as provided by Abdul) can easily be an action described or joked about in any numerous National Lampoon type movies of the last several years. Face it, what we see as awful abuse now might have been generally accepted to the students and our society through our own media. The actual facts are still withheld, so this opinion might change.

Two: The media circus is absurd, mostly due to the fact that there is nothing to report. If the authorities want to keep playing “no comment” (which we can be outraged about if we want) then that is still the news story. Playing up so many articles and news stories on a “no comment” makes a circus. Nature of journalism.

BS that these kids get punished. While I often disagree with Abudl's sensationalism remarks, he was right on the money this morning. If this had happened to a woman (especially if it happened outside of school grounds, if I may add), they'd be throwing the book at these students and it wouldn't have taken over a month for this to be reported to authorities and dealt with.

Now, the best case scenario is that Carmel High School was ignorant of the problem, and the worst case is they knew about and did next to nothing.

MO, no way can all but raping a student be considered “humorous” or a “prank”.

Please keep this in context and resist the wild speculation & Abdul's “what if” speculation and outrage considering none of us know the facts.

One thing it does do is give more listeners/callers for Abdul's radio show, however, at what expense of truth, justice, victim/minor rights, & presumption of innocence???

While we all find this interesting and entertain ourselves with speculation, I have in the back of my mind several instances were intense local media coverage has caused suicides and lost employment before the system is able to weed through inaccuracies/rumor and absolve guilt or deliver justice.

Punishments that ultimately did not fit the alleged wrong doing.

A presumption of innocence is in a court of law when charges are filed. Right now, the school administration is acting as if its enitrely possible none of this ever happened.

I guess they expelled 4 people and kids left the school for no reason at all.

Do you consider yourself a conservative?

A core part of that is personal responsibility. The media does not cause people to kill themselves.

And even if they do, we aren't talking about paparazzi here. We're talking about news stations filing public records requests and asking school officials for comments. They aren't beating down paths to anyones doors.

There is a new facebook page..Carmel Brownfingers

In this case, I am referring to the minor children that are the alleged victims.

This is not to say the minor children that are being accused of a crime and the teachers/adults surrounding this could be not be harmed needlessly.

Don't underestimate the power of the media and don't cling so tightly to a theory you miss the details that really matter.

It's already traumatizing to be put in this situation and having the officials, law enforcement and school admin, basically drag their feet. If you really think that media exposure of the case, not the IDs of the victims, is going to do them in rather than say, the actual act of being criminally confined, then you've got a unique perspective.

The only reason this has become a story is because the officials involved have, at best, ignored the situation or weren't knowledgable of it. And at worst, let it go on despite knowing about it. That's the focus of the story. Because while we, as taxpayers, can't change what happened, we can prevent it from happening by kicking these people ou of their jobs.

People think that because it's now a criminal investigaiton that we can't get answers. I'd say that school admin could've prevented it from becoming a criminal investigation. They might owe the media answers, but they cerainly do to the residents of Hamilton County.

I must've completely missed this gem of a post.

Rich people have lawyers?!?! And their lawyers cause media attention? It's usually the OPPOSITE. And they still might get off, since police are only reporting possible charges.

My high school was sports-focused enough so I know a thing or two. The seniors on a team are supposed to be the cream of the crop. They set the tone for the team. If 80% OF YOUR SENIORS are basically acting as thugs, then students and family being there are basically cheering on a team that stands for being thugs.

I'm also sick of this excuse of “a few bad apples.” One bully is a bad apple. Two might be a problem. Four? In a short period of time? Both leading to a criminal investigation? Someone has some splainin to do.

Think about what you wrote.

Say you are a kid that has another kid do something embarrassing/humiliating to you on the school bus and now you have gotten the other kid suspended from school & basketball team. Your parents, coaches, school administrators,lawyers,law enforcement, & the mayor are now involved. If this is not bad enough, each night the media is telling new rumors as they give small pieces of the story.

How do you think this kids day is going in school today?

While I haven't looked for awhile and things may have changed Carmel is no elite school at all when properly measured. Student Academic Achievement there used to be up to several whole standard deviations below predicted performance. The IDOE multiple regression model is/was quite adequate for this purpose of measurement. High SES and High IQ schools in Indiana government schools were almost uniformally very poor schools when measured on what is, I think, a capacity measurement. Not an elite school at all even if they think so-no one else should.

This is a criminal investigation. This is not as simple as “something embarrassing.”

The smart thing is to offer the kid a transfer to another school and have the school pay for any costs associated with the transfer, if any.

Wow. Problem solved.

Of course, if Carmel (and really, most high school) didn't have a bullying problem, the child's day would be fine.

None of what I've proposed involves releasing or even hinting at details of said child's identity. Kids transfer to different schools all the time for various reasons.

Viral, that's not funny.

Matt: I wasn't aware that the admins were acting as if nothing had happened.

THis is a difficult situation for all concerned. I am very impressed that any Indiana high school principal, especially in Carmel, would dismiss four varsity BB players the week before sectional.

All we know for sure is (by the school's own admission): the criminal probe mirrors some of the internal investigation. So, wrong-[doing is not denied. The question is: has it risen to the level of criminal conduct, in its initial occurence(s?), or in any follow-up reporting/lack thereof?

Again: this will not end well.

Civil attorneys, start lining up. If criminal charges are filed, of course the accused should get competent representation and all the benefits of the greatest legal system on earth.

It has been reported that one of the parents of a “victim” is an attorney.

For those of us that don't practice law, this could be a telling detail.

Obviously something is not right in this conflict.

Could this angry parent be rushing to court, making legal claims, spreading innuendo, and pushing buttons on less than stellar facts?

Time will tell.

Anyone can make a criminal claim, it is the police and prosecutors that will largely determine if this case merits that treatment.

Having kids myself, I'm sure transferring schools is not so simple or desirable as you might think, even though this conflict may leave no other choice.

Additionally I'm sure it is no secret at school which kids were involved.

Quoting Think Again; This will not end well

It not ending well has nothing to do with media involvement or exposure. The media acting as the “4th branch”, ideally, is supposed to expose government corruption and wrong doing. That's their role in this, to add pressure to the schools and CPD. Not to prosecute themselves, not dig up dirt on the students involved.

And from wht I read in a news articles, the victimes have already transferred.

Anyone can make a criminal claim, true. But if this was made up and absolutely nothing happened at all, I doubt we'd be hearing about this almost 2 months later.

First, the Carmel administration ignored the situation for weeks and then when a local tv station investigated, Carmel administration tried to portray it a hazing incident or teenage horse play. Fortuantely they fell flat on their faces on the charade. Secondly, unless I have missed something, no one has been expelled from school. 4 males were suspended for 5 days. I have not heard or read of any explusions.

I must've gotten my press clips mixed up. My apologies. I just watched the press conference again and no term such as alleged were ever used. I was impressed by the superintendent.

Must've been a parent or random man-on-the-street interview.

As witnessed Friday night, the 4 basketball players are at least not at the games. This is beyond the initial 5 day suspension.

Hector: we didn't know for sure that the admins ignored it for weeks. We just didn't know about it. Sometimes, internal investigations take quite a while, especially if any of the witnesses or fellow participants lawyer up or clam up.

If I were on that school board, here's what I would demand once this all flushes out:

A complete timeline of who knew what, what was done, and when. Fact for fact, meeting for meeting. A post-mortem that would flush out all the facts about process.

And if there re gaps, heads roll.

It really is that simple.

Nick, one question: why does the profession of a parent make one whit of difference?

I agree, TA. I don't know the school board members well enough to know if they are strong enough to do that. The IPS school board members are nothing but puppets of Eugene White and they would never demand such a thorough report. I hope the school board members in Carmel have more backbone than the spineless puppets of IPS.

Hector: From first-hand knowledge–the number of gutsy school board members in Indiana: less than a dozen. And nowhere do they control a board.

My definition of “gutsy” ? Smart, independent of the superintedent, not necessarily antogonistic but unafraid of scorn if the chips don't fall correctly. Respectful of the staff, taxpayers and students. Business-like.

Here's what happens to that kind of board member: immediate freezing out by the fellow board members-lapdogs. Especially after that tough 4-1 or 3-2 vote on an expensive construction project. (“What, you don't want to do what's best for the kids?”–Supers own the copyright on that shameful question)

Make no mistake Hector. In Indiana, for over 40 years, Superintendents control schools, not school boards. And it doesn't look like it's going to change. Hint: taxpayers don't elect Supers. They elect board members. Take one step across that invisible line in the dirt, as a school board member, and you're swatted down like a pesky August mosquito. Accused of micro-managing the central office. Which does happen, but not often.

There are some good Supers out there. But that number is dwindling…you see, as a group, they've figured out their power base, and they won't let go easily.

Fix it? Yep. Allow non-licensed supers to become supers. A retired Army officer or CFO with six weeks of stern educational in-service could run any school corporation in Indiana. Competently. It is not rocket science, but in these times, it demands precision, people skills, and attention to details. As I've noted before, the problem is not teachers, or their union. The problem is administrators.

Kids suffer in this climate. Mightily.

TA, I agree with your above remarks enough to 'leave it at that'.