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	<title>Comments on: Labor Pains</title>
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	<description>Indiana Barrister is the source for local Indianapolis and Indiana news, politics and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-2#comment-31984</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Appreciation for the failed brilliance of European economics, is an acquired distaste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Appreciation for the failed brilliance of European economics, is an acquired distaste.</p>
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		<title>By: IndyAries</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-2#comment-31965</link>
		<dc:creator>IndyAries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;But I endured eight years of America&#039;s worst president ever, George W. Bush&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I would argue that the recipient for &#039;worst president ever&#039; would he Abe Lincoln.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Bush wasn&#039;t instrumental in the death of over 600,000 Americans.  That&#039;s just for starters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But I endured eight years of America&#39;s worst president ever, George W. Bush&#8221;.</p>
<p>I would argue that the recipient for &#39;worst president ever&#39; would he Abe Lincoln.</p>
<p>Bush wasn&#39;t instrumental in the death of over 600,000 Americans.  That&#39;s just for starters.</p>
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		<title>By: pascal</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-2#comment-31960</link>
		<dc:creator>pascal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Keynes wasn&#039;t known here until FDR days gave him the academic cover to play God.  In saying that, you might surmise that I don&#039;t think European economic theory was worth squat.  I don&#039;t-much prefering even the Austrian school with Mises to it even though Pesch was better than all of them. Pesch?  Reagan learned fundamental economics with no Keynes that I know of.  The Reagan policies contrasted well with Carter Keynesian poverty/inflation/stagflation preferred by Dumbocraps-see Obama, fer instance, whose policies are INSANE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keynes wasn&#39;t known here until FDR days gave him the academic cover to play God.  In saying that, you might surmise that I don&#39;t think European economic theory was worth squat.  I don&#39;t-much prefering even the Austrian school with Mises to it even though Pesch was better than all of them. Pesch?  Reagan learned fundamental economics with no Keynes that I know of.  The Reagan policies contrasted well with Carter Keynesian poverty/inflation/stagflation preferred by Dumbocraps-see Obama, fer instance, whose policies are INSANE.</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer 834512</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-1#comment-31956</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer 834512</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>TA- Pardon my liberal (no pun intended) use of your earlier post.  I thought you summed-up common ground, before I put my spin on it. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No disagreement on your point.  We have a daughter left in the house that I&#039;m not sure where she&#039;s going and what&#039;s best for her.  But, despite big efforts from the entirety of the family, **poof**, we got one more year to pick a path.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m talking about dysfunctional &quot;dysfunctional&quot;.  I mean statistics that support case worker visits every six months for a couple of years for new-birth single moms getting a taxpayer check, &amp; capping biological parent reunification attempts with the child at 18 months, or 3 problem DCS visits- whichever comes first. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Young children can&#039;t be bondoed over like a car at the body shop.  You know from your service to the community they only take so much before they&#039;re irreparably damaged.  There are plenty of single mom &amp; formerly dysfunctional parent(s) success stories.  There are a disproportionate number of failures as well.  When failure happens, we&#039;re talking statistics related to obeisity, graduation, drugs, incarceration, repetition of the whole cycle again, the loss of a productive taxpayer, blah, blah, blah....&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t think this genuinely dysfunctional parenting is some moral high ground to defend- morally, statistically, or fiscally.  When it descends to the level I&#039;m speaking of, I believe it&#039;s reprehensible regardless of race, income, religion, or sex.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The cost to us all is enormous by whatever measure you apply- when we can least afford it by ANY measure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TA- Pardon my liberal (no pun intended) use of your earlier post.  I thought you summed-up common ground, before I put my spin on it. </p>
<p>No disagreement on your point.  We have a daughter left in the house that I&#39;m not sure where she&#39;s going and what&#39;s best for her.  But, despite big efforts from the entirety of the family, **poof**, we got one more year to pick a path.  </p>
<p>I&#39;m talking about dysfunctional &#8220;dysfunctional&#8221;.  I mean statistics that support case worker visits every six months for a couple of years for new-birth single moms getting a taxpayer check, &#038; capping biological parent reunification attempts with the child at 18 months, or 3 problem DCS visits- whichever comes first. </p>
<p>Young children can&#39;t be bondoed over like a car at the body shop.  You know from your service to the community they only take so much before they&#39;re irreparably damaged.  There are plenty of single mom &#038; formerly dysfunctional parent(s) success stories.  There are a disproportionate number of failures as well.  When failure happens, we&#39;re talking statistics related to obeisity, graduation, drugs, incarceration, repetition of the whole cycle again, the loss of a productive taxpayer, blah, blah, blah&#8230;.</p>
<p>I don&#39;t think this genuinely dysfunctional parenting is some moral high ground to defend- morally, statistically, or fiscally.  When it descends to the level I&#39;m speaking of, I believe it&#39;s reprehensible regardless of race, income, religion, or sex.</p>
<p>The cost to us all is enormous by whatever measure you apply- when we can least afford it by ANY measure.</p>
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		<title>By: varangianguard</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-1#comment-31955</link>
		<dc:creator>varangianguard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Keynes was writing fundamentally important work (for his theories) in Economics in the early 1930s. That would have made the late President Reagan all of 22 years old. I&#039;ll grant you that the late president did study Economics, but I wonder how much of leading edge, European-based theory wound its way down to Eureaka College? That is an interesting question. Certainly possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keynes was writing fundamentally important work (for his theories) in Economics in the early 1930s. That would have made the late President Reagan all of 22 years old. I&#39;ll grant you that the late president did study Economics, but I wonder how much of leading edge, European-based theory wound its way down to Eureaka College? That is an interesting question. Certainly possible.</p>
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		<title>By: pascal</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-1#comment-31954</link>
		<dc:creator>pascal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan&lt;/a&gt;  Reagan was that old and used to joke about it.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Anent social promotion and other lies of the schools the absolute worst was when a parent you knew came up and wondered why his kid, who had been straight A all thru elementary schooling was unable to pass ISTEP.  ISTEP exit exam is a dumbed down 9th grade level test.  It is not a 12th grade level test BECAUSE if it were, then 90% of Indiana high school graduates would not graduate.  Your 150 idiots at work.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My extremist views on government schools were not considered extreme by voters.  Twice.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks Sean</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan</a>  Reagan was that old and used to joke about it.  </p>
<p>Anent social promotion and other lies of the schools the absolute worst was when a parent you knew came up and wondered why his kid, who had been straight A all thru elementary schooling was unable to pass ISTEP.  ISTEP exit exam is a dumbed down 9th grade level test.  It is not a 12th grade level test BECAUSE if it were, then 90% of Indiana high school graduates would not graduate.  Your 150 idiots at work.</p>
<p>My extremist views on government schools were not considered extreme by voters.  Twice.</p>
<p>Thanks Sean</p>
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		<title>By: melyssa</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-1#comment-31951</link>
		<dc:creator>melyssa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>TA...I love you, man!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TA&#8230;I love you, man!</p>
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		<title>By: Think Again</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-1#comment-31950</link>
		<dc:creator>Think Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=3505#comment-31950</guid>
		<description>Taxpayer, I&#039;ve served on a school board.  I&#039;ve batted my head against the Superintendent-dominating wall many times.  Too many times.  And i know form that experience that there are many, many good parents who are captive inside the system with kids who&#039;ve been socially promoted.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My phone used to ring off the wall about Oct.1, right after the first middle school report card. Good parents find out Johnny can&#039;t read past the 3rd grade, and he needs months of remediation to get grade-specific.  Inevitably, Johnny struggles all through 6th grade, because he cannot keep up with the middle-school multiple-teacher format until and unless he can read and comprehend well.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Why in the hell the parents didn&#039;t know his reading level before then is a good question.  But they went to all the conferences.  They were in the PTO, bought the God-damned gift wrap and candy, drank the kool aid.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But they were involved.  And loving.  Just not the RIGHT kind of loving.  If the school system had half a brian, they&#039;d hold Johnny in 6th grade for four years if they had to.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;How many times did those Johnnys get retained in 6th?  Almost never.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For that and other reasons, after awhile, I gave up.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There are lousy parents, like you suggest.  Too many of them.  But a lot of &quot;good&quot; parents got caught in this trap, too.  And by the time they figure it out, and wipe the sleep outta their eyes, **poof** Johnny is 12.  In 6th grade.  It&#039;s fixable at that point, but boy is is expensive, time-consuming and way more effort than it would&#039;ve been in, oh, say...THIRD GRADE. It usually gets a C-plus fix, which frankly prepares Johnny for, oh, a mediocre high school education. Doomed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m talking about a four-star school here.  In a great school system.  I shudder at how it&#039;s done in less-stellar school systems.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Damn I dredged up all that old crap.  Now I&#039;m depressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taxpayer, I&#39;ve served on a school board.  I&#39;ve batted my head against the Superintendent-dominating wall many times.  Too many times.  And i know form that experience that there are many, many good parents who are captive inside the system with kids who&#39;ve been socially promoted.</p>
<p>My phone used to ring off the wall about Oct.1, right after the first middle school report card. Good parents find out Johnny can&#39;t read past the 3rd grade, and he needs months of remediation to get grade-specific.  Inevitably, Johnny struggles all through 6th grade, because he cannot keep up with the middle-school multiple-teacher format until and unless he can read and comprehend well.</p>
<p>Why in the hell the parents didn&#39;t know his reading level before then is a good question.  But they went to all the conferences.  They were in the PTO, bought the God-damned gift wrap and candy, drank the kool aid.  </p>
<p>But they were involved.  And loving.  Just not the RIGHT kind of loving.  If the school system had half a brian, they&#39;d hold Johnny in 6th grade for four years if they had to.</p>
<p>How many times did those Johnnys get retained in 6th?  Almost never.</p>
<p>For that and other reasons, after awhile, I gave up.</p>
<p>There are lousy parents, like you suggest.  Too many of them.  But a lot of &#8220;good&#8221; parents got caught in this trap, too.  And by the time they figure it out, and wipe the sleep outta their eyes, **poof** Johnny is 12.  In 6th grade.  It&#39;s fixable at that point, but boy is is expensive, time-consuming and way more effort than it would&#39;ve been in, oh, say&#8230;THIRD GRADE. It usually gets a C-plus fix, which frankly prepares Johnny for, oh, a mediocre high school education. Doomed.</p>
<p>I&#39;m talking about a four-star school here.  In a great school system.  I shudder at how it&#39;s done in less-stellar school systems.</p>
<p>Damn I dredged up all that old crap.  Now I&#39;m depressed.</p>
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		<title>By: varangianguard</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-1#comment-31937</link>
		<dc:creator>varangianguard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Pascal wrote: &quot;Reagan&#039;s economics were learned prior to Keynes...&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What? Maybe you ought to look up John Maynard Keynes. Reagan wasn&#039;t that old.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pascal wrote: &#8220;Reagan&#39;s economics were learned prior to Keynes&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>What? Maybe you ought to look up John Maynard Keynes. Reagan wasn&#39;t that old.</p>
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		<title>By: varangianguard</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2010/02/labor_pains.html/comment-page-1#comment-31936</link>
		<dc:creator>varangianguard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Unfortunately, schmoozing the crowd seems to trump smarts when it comes to the Beltway.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In one manner we disagree, in difficult times give me a person of action, not a thinker. Decisiveness is much better than temporizing any day of the week. Surely, a President has spent years honing skills designed to make decisions. Then make them.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A good question for some Presidential historian, are we in an &quot;ascending&quot; or &quot;good&quot; phase with Presidents, or have we suffered from a string of &quot;bad&quot; ones? And what of the short term future? Continuity or &quot;hopey-changey&quot; of a different sort? E-yew.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My favorite President? Harry Truman. He was handed a dog&#039;s dinner without the slightest bit of preperation in 1944, and didn&#039;t let it all go to the dogs. The 1948 Presidential election result was just a bonus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, schmoozing the crowd seems to trump smarts when it comes to the Beltway.</p>
<p>In one manner we disagree, in difficult times give me a person of action, not a thinker. Decisiveness is much better than temporizing any day of the week. Surely, a President has spent years honing skills designed to make decisions. Then make them.</p>
<p>A good question for some Presidential historian, are we in an &#8220;ascending&#8221; or &#8220;good&#8221; phase with Presidents, or have we suffered from a string of &#8220;bad&#8221; ones? And what of the short term future? Continuity or &#8220;hopey-changey&#8221; of a different sort? E-yew.</p>
<p>My favorite President? Harry Truman. He was handed a dog&#39;s dinner without the slightest bit of preperation in 1944, and didn&#39;t let it all go to the dogs. The 1948 Presidential election result was just a bonus.</p>
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