Labor Pains
Although things have quieted down over at the Indiana General Assembly, there are still some bills of interest worth paying attention to, one of which deals with the start of school.
Last week the Senate approved a bill that would push the start of school back to after Labor Day in 2012 and schools would end by June 10. Private schools and year-round schools would be exempt. The measure in the House right now.
At the risk of sounding like my late grandfather, back when I was in school in Chicago we started after Labor Day and finished around June 5 or 6. And somehow we managed to turn out just fine.
There is no reason to start school in early August. Schools used to start early because of I-Step testing, but I-Step has been moved to the Spring. Some school administrators also argue they need to start school early so kids can complete their finals before winter break.
Once again, I’m about to sound like my grandfather here, but I can clearly recall my school district giving us finals two weeks after the Holiday break and everyone turned out just fine. In fact we preferred it that way so we had to do some studying over break and not forget everything. We also didn’t have a fall break.
By starting after Labor Day we got to enjoy our summers and the schools got to save on air conditioning because the number of ungodly hot days were kept down to a bear minimum.
It seems like a win-win situation that’s very easy to accomplish. Maybe that’s why it will take forever to get done.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
There is no reason NOT to start school at the beginning of August. Schools should be allowed to set their own calendars. The days of “after Labor Day” starts were before the mandated 180 days. It's a silly power grab by the travel lobby…that's what I'm hearing.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Plus, the current “balanced” semester schedule would be lost. Students would be studying over winter break. Maybe the General Assembly will pass a bill forbidding students to have homework over that time. Call it…save our Christmas Break.
Has anyone done the math…there's little more than 180 school days between Labor Day and June 10.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
Did I hear someone expect “math skills” out of the aggregrate whole of the Legislature?
Snort, snuffle, snicker. Funny, Jon. Funny.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Zero reasons? It takes a bit of nerve for anybody associated with public education to cast stones at another lobby for weilding power. Balanced semesters? How did we somehow cope without them before? If there's little cushion beyond 180 days, then going a few days deeper into June is usually a better weather gamble than this craziness of mid to early August. Does anybody see a surge of money coming for air conditioning? We'll be lucky to keep athletics and the arts. Compared to our global competition, it's not as if our students don't NEED to study over break (and yes, I've got a kid in school).
Much as we'd ideally like local control over schools, it's kind of like the melting away of township gov't. Local control would have a stronger argument if many school boards weren't more like lapdogs for the superintendent than watchdogs for the taxpayer.
We're reaping what we've sewn. Societally, we've chosen to incentivize having kids like corn crops without sufficient parenting and participation to go with it. We justify educating any child that walks in the door because headcount is more important than protecting infrastructure for citizens versus non-citizens. So, when times are tough enough, consolidation and reduction in educaton overhead is what we have left.
Or, we'd rather lay-off teachers and increase class sizes further? I wouldn't.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Delaying until after Labor Day makes perfect sense. The schools have gone crazy starting earlier and earlier trying to get students ready for the September ISTEP test. Now that it is given in the spring, the reason for starting in the middle of summer is gone. I will not go on and on for the money savings, disruption of family life and the difficult for older students and summers as those have all been cited perfectly. Any indication if the house is going to seriously consider this??
February 9th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
I do not really care about when the school year starts. However, I find it very funny that conservatives in the legislature support this intrusion into local governance. Maybe this one solution is not best for all school districts. Wouldn't it be best to allow the local boards that know their constituents best decide this issue? In most districts, the teachers vote on a proposed calendar. This action is kind of hypocritical for conservatives to be proposing.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Corn crops and subsidies. An interesting tie-in, Taxpayer.
To Abdul and anyone else who harkens back to the “good ole' days” and how “we used to learn”: stop it. Now. You look silly and it is silly.
In the “good ole' days” Indiana had an agrarian-manufacturing economy. By about 80%. We made things, we grew things. On my family farm, it wasn't until the late 1970s that we even HEARD about selling corn products to Russia or anywhere overseas.
Today, farm kids know about foreign markets–and many are reading or learning Chinese, Spanish and German in elementary schools. Worldwide, foreign students were learning English 40 years ago, and those “kids” are in power now in their native countries.
By the way, length of school year in: Japan (223) Norway (230) China (204-300)…
School year should be the entire purview of local school corporations, tied to test-score performance. In other words, however long it takes to meet the standards, that's how long you go. Within reason.
I heard your argument about school boards on-air this morning, Abdul, and it has some merit, because the state now provides much of the funding–but not in ALL school districts. The school funding formula still determines how that pie is cut up. And in no-growth wealthy districts, a majority of the moeny still comes from local taxpayers.
If Carmel or WashTwp can get their test scores at a state-acceptable rate, whatever their length of school year, it should be OK. If the local taxpayers want to pay for anything beyond that test-score-standard, and go for say, nine or ten months a year, we should devise a system that allows them to pay exclusively for all time above the time required to meet state standards.
And the flip side of that is, for school districts that cannot meet the standards, they may need state help 365 days a year.
By the by, I listened to Rep. Bosma this morning, too, Abdul. That gasbag spewed more uncooperative gibberish than I've heard in eyars. What a complete waste of air time. He even dialed in Nancy Freaking Pelosi.
I wonder if he had it all written on the palm of his hand…
February 9th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Issues at stake: local government/control or state mandates????? Why should local schools not set their own calendars–why does the state believe it should mandate such a local issue? IF local communities want township government and are willing to pay through their own taxation—why should state mandate otherwise?? Sorry just a bit tired of the idea that the state has all the answers –and interestingly condemining the feds for doing the same thing to states. Ridding Indiana Code of some provisions that are out of date particularly in regards to local governance would be preferred over the “we know what is best for you” attitude.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Your putting way too much thought into this “education” bill.
The bill to start school after Labor Day has nothing to do with education or energy efficiency.
Holiday World in southern Indiana thinks they will benefit from a longer summer break.
(More time for family vacations to their water park)
February 9th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
My neighbor is a high school teacher and his biggest concern with the bill is that AP tests are given in May and a later start to school means less time to get the kids educated and ready for the AP tests. So that is a legit concern. Otherwise, I don't really care one way or the other.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Jason,
Your neighbor is worried about having enough time to study for a test in May if school starts in early September, instead of middle August? Even starting in September, that's nine months of studying before a test in May.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Given that performance on AP tests in Indiana is not great, in part, because teachers can't teach AP materials to kids who can't read them, I'm comfortable with the 150 idiots doing oversight on their education mess. Repeal of 217 would be the single best thing they could do. Tinkering around the edges of their socialist fiasco will never move us in a direction of getting a dollar's worth of value for every tax dollar they shovel into the black hole.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Another jab at Palin? Can you even help yourself? Did you watch Barry using teleprompters to speak to gradeschool kids? Now which is more pathetic?……………like you would honestly answer that question……
February 9th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
Rico, talking about education and Palin in the same paragraph is kinda funny.
She used notes written on her hand. The basic talking points of the Conservative Manfesto, and she had to write them on her hand. It's like a college band using sheet music for their fight song.
Teleprompters are comon in business and politics.
As for her overall intelligence, I like the phrase used by Peggy Noonan, the esteemed Reagan speechwriter. When asked about the half-governor's knowledge base, Noonan crinkled her nose, thought and said: “Well, let's just say she's not intellectually curious, which is what I want in a leader.”
Question answered. Checkmate, too, I'm pretty sure…but then, your standards are different.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
But, all that aside, Rico, I hope to God she hangs around for a long time. Loooooooong time.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Why, Rico, what have you got against teleprompters? What would you expect an Affirmative Action President to do? If he wrote on his hands he'd have to use a special ink. And, if the teleprompter lost power he would be clueless and exposed as same,sorta like the day he went several minutes into the wrong speech when his teleprompter wasn't working well. “Hi Mom!” is the correct answer to the DF's (where the D is for dumb and the F is a word not used in polite company). So, how long has it been since Barry faced questions in a un-rehearsed manner, you know, like a press conference when he doesn't have to call on toads with pre selected questions? If President, Affirmative Action, ever showed up for Abdul's questions even TA would regret his vote for the tool.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Am I the only person who sees racism throught this posting, Pascal..where is your sheet?
February 9th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Nah, Hector, you're wasting your time. Some folks kdidn't get the message in Nov. 2008, and still don't get it. They may never get it.
And some of them don't want to get it. America voted for a non-white president. Horrors!
For the record: anyone who calls a sitting president a “tool” is a complete idiot. A disrespectful idiot.
Pascal, pal: Pres. Obama had more televised press conferences and press availabilities in his first year than any president before him. Soemtimes I don't like the answers, either, but they were there for all to hear.
After eight years of Pres. Bush, I still refer to him as such, though I think his presidency was America's worst ever. His office deserves respect.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Palin lost her teleprompter midway through her acceptance speech at the GOP convention and gave a great speech. Your man can't talk to children without being told what to say.
Of course, teleprompters are common in politics and business. What a revelation!! President Acorn has been hailed as the greatest orator of our times. Yet, he sounds like a dunce without his trusty teleprompter. Social elitist snobs like yourself would rather be lied to than told told the truth by someone who may mispronounce a word.
Maybe that's at the heart of your mancrush on Obama. Maybe you're like an abused housewife who desperately wants to believe her husband won't keep beating her because he uses his charm to convince her he won't. And after awhile, you just look pathetic and derserve only pity.
I can't imagine what version of chess you keep playing in your little mind to call your last post a checkmate. Perhaps you should stick with checkers.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:27 pm
TA calling for respect for a mere elected official is priceless especially when he deals out so much respect to elected officials himself. Is there any denial that Mr. Obama is an Affirmative Action result? Who was the last President who planted questions in the press corps? (Speaking of corps, Barry doesn't even know how to pronouce it). So, how's that hopey changey thingy working out for America?
February 9th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Pascal, I imagine that Obama not only pronounces it correctly in English but in the other 8 languages he speaks. How many languages do you speak? Are you still trying to figure what color of special ink Obama needs to write crib notes on his hand? HINT: The answer is none as he has a brain and an education. If he needs to keep some notes to reference, he knows that is the purpose of note cards. That silly quitter half governor is still doing that third grade thing of writing on her hand. Poor pathetic racist Pascal!!
February 9th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
The Whitehouse Press Corps (prounouced 'core', by the way, not 'corpse', as Barry would have you believe–then again, you probably believe that too now) has had less 'real' access to this president than they have the last several presidents. This is according to their own accounts.
And if wasn't for liberal policies your current president endorses, we would have had a black president decades ago. Now, for all intents and purposes, we have Jesse Jackson in the Whitehouse. He looks and sounds good, but is not a man of character. He is a man who's 'got game' but no substance. If you think that will help the plight of the black American, then you are as clueless on this matter as you are most societal issues.
But way-to-play the race card, TA! Barry would be proud.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:04 am
Aren't the people who are using the “Save our Summer” slogan the very same people who declare there is a “War on Christmas”?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:11 am
Abdul,
Is Fox saying this is part of a vast Muslim conspiracy?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:14 am
Back to the topic at hand, and I say this as a high school student:
This is the worst decision possible. The concerns over AP testing have serious merit. Why is the government intervening in this process, anyway? For all those who preach small government, this seems like a pretty big mandate by the government, once again, to reach in to the hands of the local school boards and take power.
Having tests two weeks after a two-week long break will have effects. I know I wouldn't study during my break because it's dumb; winter break is for family, not for studying.
I've taken multiple AP classes and you'd be surprised the amount of material there is to cover and how much of it doesn't get covered because of time issues. Making that even harder is not something that I'd want to do.
Abdul, do you have any positive justification for this change sans “I did it when I was a kid, so you should too?” Sorry, that strikes me as odd. I'm sorry your high school experience turned out that way, but that doesn't mean you need to push it upon me as well.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:33 am
Like “public education,” assertions of “state standards” & “state help” are oxymoronic.
Public “education” is a woefully corrupt scam. Knowledge is an individual pursuit, not a public debt.
Children aren't prisoners, 180 days of mandated adult day care (the scam of professional posers, educrats, ednecks, fauxgressives, etc.) is not education.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:50 am
My high school experience in Chicago was pretty positive. It's where I learned how to deal with red tape.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:07 am
Go easy Hector, padded rooms are expensive. http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/02/05/... would seem to indicate that since July of this year Affirmative Action has been muted. And, when you google Obama Press Conferences there are many, many negative commentaries. If he doesn't take Palin's advice he will be the latest Jimmy Carter demo failure. So, TA, it looks like you might be correct for the first half of his first year but you are a loser since July. Now, you are also a loser for the year if you count as press conferences those times when AA only calls on certain reporters who ask him the questions he has been scripted to answer….and don't deny it-as it is well known, maybe even to Hector.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:28 am
How sad is it that the some of the most coherent comments are from Student? As usual Rico, Pascal et al. are parroting talking points from the extremes instead of thinking for themselves and engaging in any meaningful discourse. But what else is new?
Student you are correct, it does seem strange that small government proponents would be supporting a big government decision. There could be many reasons for that. Right now, as Indiana attempts to pass a law to prohibit starting school before Labor Day, a number of counties in Southwestern Minnesota are fighting for approval to start school before Labor Day. (As the saying goes, the grass is always greener). One reason for this request is to align the different district schedules. That would allow the participating counties to hold joint teacher education and share resources – in other words save money in ways that don't affect the students and the quality of the education they receive.
Abdul, I have to agree with Student – just because we started school after Labor Day doesn't mean it's the only way to plan a school year or even the best way. Personally, I think all students should attend year round and school days should be longer — that doesn't mean I'm right however.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:01 am
I'm not sure who you are, Andrea, and I'm not sure I care. But I do not use talking points. And I cannot be categorized along with any other single poster on this site. Each of us is unique and different. I am an unapologetic conservative. I speak(write) my mind because that is what I feel compelled to do.
Abdul deserves a hard time because he claims to be a conservative, yet supports and endorses the most radically left-leaning president this nation has ever seen. Think Again is simply a bitterly partisan Democrat hack, unencumbered by conviction or ideology, who's posts often demand a response.
But you're on your way to being the perfect liberal, Andrea. Attack the messenger and hope those listening (reading) forget the message.
And by what reasoning does one conclude that all public schools in Indiana should absolutely be on the same schedule? Why don't we let those decisions be made at the local level?
February 10th, 2010 at 5:16 am
Abdul, you have a great talent for blog titles and a turn of the word. I don't know how you do it, but glad you do.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:18 am
Andrea's last paragraph reveals more about the opposition to SB 150 than some would care to admit … a faction that wants year-round classes and longer days! Maybe like a job! Kids could just go to school from 8-6 so that the parents could just drop them off and pick them up after work! You could bond with you kids during family time from 6:30pm-8pm and cram in playtime,dinner,homework, bath and reading to them– spending a whopping 2.5 hours a day awake with your kids!( I added in inhaling cereal in the morning) Sad really… that your desire is to have your child's entire scope of education and development as a person is handed over to educrats. There is merit in play and recreation. These children will soon enough be grown-ups and enslaved to the government by taxes! Let them have a childhood – one full of playing in parks, riding bikes, playing sports (outside!) and maturing through many experiences, including relaxed summers doing maybe nothing but stretching out in the grass, looking at the clouds … thinking.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:10 am
Forget all year school we will have our hands full funding 180 days with the current economic recession we are in. Remember the all day Kindergaten talk, dahhh no 'MONEY'! The only plus I see is saving money due to air conditioning. As for funding cuts maybe it's time to cut the funding for Kindergarten, back in the day in Indiana it wasn't mandatory to send your kids to Kindergarten and in Abdul's words, ” everyone turned out just fine”.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:27 am
guy, student, et al, how about the earlier idea I posted?
Background: the state now pays over half the local schools' operating costs, via sales tax and other shell games. (For MOST but not ALL school districts). That trickle-down is just hitting most districts' budgets, and will fully impact the budgets next school year.
Pick your school district. For this example, I'll use Washington Township. Because that district has one of the state's highest assessed valuations, the school funding formula still pushes over half the funding to local taxpayers. The reasons are complicated, and unfair, but so be it.
If WasTwp voters, via their school board or perhaps referendum, want to spend more money from local prop taxes than their neighbors, they should be able to do so. The length of their school year is now, and always should be, their local board's decision. So long as they meet minimum state standards.
Now, flip to IPS. I've got some feelers out, and won't know the final answer for awhile, but I'm guessing, if past trends hold true, that IPS would be the polar opposite, funding-wise, of WashTwp. A very high ratio of state-to-local funding.
And it's no secret they cannot meet state standards. So, the majority funder there, all of us (state), should fund the best method to meet those standards, even if it's a longer school year.
At the same time, we should be looking for all kinds of ways to improve instructional quality. CHanges to tenure laws, length of school, day/year, class size, social promotion, etc.
Kids should stay as long at a certain grade level, as it takes to master that grade's subjects. For some kids, that might be five weeks. For some, two years.
Good teachers know when the material is mastered. They don't need state tests to tell them.
Rico, for the record: I'm not good at a lot of things, but chess is one. I recognized a good checkmate, on the chessboard or in life, at an early age.
And pascal, I didn't promise respect for every office…although I probably should have more. I have a healthy disrespect for the office of Indiana legislator, for instance. Slightly more respect for our Council, but not much more.
But I endured eight years of America's worst president ever, George W. Bush, and continue to respect the office. He was and is Pres. Bush. Not some hack, borderline racist nickname.
Oh yeah: a little more respect for the office of local school board. Absolutely no respect for the manner in which most of those boards have become lapdogs to architect-friendly superintendents.
Older? Yeah, I am. Crabbier? Probably. Cynical: damned straight.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:32 am
Rico,
You either need a laxative or a girlfriend, because dude you are way too uptight.
Two things! First, school districts are creatures of the state so the state can do whatever it wants.
Second, I am not a conservative, I'm Abdul. I will always do what's best for me and everything else is secondary.
You can now go back being insane.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
TA, the “jury” will be out for quite awhile yet on whether President GW Bush was the “worst ever” President, or not. While I certainly think that preliminary data exists that could substantiate his lock on being in the bottom ten, events have to play out before crowning him the new “bottom feeder supremo” in Presidential history.
Besides, my choice still rests with Woodrow Wilson, and I don't think President GW Bush was even in the same room, much less the same league.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
This sounds like alot like the Meridian Street Madness fallacy. I mean property tax issue. A few, let me stress few, parents with their underwear in a bind.
Will changing the start/finish date improve student performance?? Show me the proof.
Secondly, let school boards be school boards. Let them (and the parents) decide.
Third, if you want to increase student performance, school boards should change the start time in the morning from lets say 7:30am to 8:30am. Especially for junior high students and high school students. Research has proven (new word to this website) that this would increase test scores.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Guest has a point, changing the start & finish times of Custer's last stand would deliver the same result; a public “education” on failure.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
First of all, Dave, let's reset this argument:
The vast majority of Indiana public education emets its goals and standards. The gap between good and bad school districts is getting wider. There will be studies for years on the exact reasons for this gap. It really doesn't make much difference.
Time-on-task probably works in primary grades, when learning patterns are established. Rote learning is the hallmark of most good early-childhood education.
But by middle school, most learning patterns are set. If a student has bad learning skills, a complete reset is needed for that student…in method of learning, as well as staying abreast of current grade subject matter. It's a losing battle, especially if the parent(s) “expect” Johnny to move through grades like his peers. Just try to tell Johnny's parents in May, that he needs to re-do 6th grade. When, in reality, he probably needed to re-do 3rd grade.
This gap is pronounced in urban areas. And this gap does not even account for students with learning disabililties or special needs. Who are disproportionately populating larger school districts.
The big-picture answer is easy: matriculate kids as they are able to progress. Where the rubber meets the road, our current system is asking all those round pegs to fit into square holes. It's overly expensive, the failure rate is too large, and the schrapnel is human…these kids often end up depending on us as adults, one way or another.
Woodrow Wilson, huh, Varan? One of my favorite presidents to research. His entire administration was corrupt, but good ole Woody, as a president, ran a lean and mean shop. Times were entirely different. For instance, long-distance calls from the White House to Wall Street sometimes took a day to completely go through.
My fave president for running the ship of state was probably FDR. To be fair, he has a larger body of work from which we can learn. My fave for sheer brainpower was Carter, but he lacked basic administrative abililties, and DC hated him.
And my favorite president for communicating was Ronaldus Maximus. Without judging the product he was pushing…he was brilliant. I'm reading his diaries/letters now…fascinating. He surrounded himself with selfish hitmen, but…the ship of state sailed, because we were comfortable with his communications ability.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
My problem with Wilson stems from his lack of foreign policy ability before, during and after the Great War.
His paid lip service to isolationists (sending confusing political signals to Europe's adversaries) until it was too late to really prepare for intervention, then – aack!, he intervened! Sent a Napoleonic general out to fight a modern war, and then over-rewarded him for slaughtering and mangling untold numbers of an American generation (grr).
Singlehandedly, his actions and inactions made WW2 inevitable (not simply a possibility). At Versailles, slapped the aspirations of both China AND Japan simultaneously (wow), causing untold misery for decades. Let down democratic movements all over the world, allowing more radical ideologies to bring down the yoke of colonialism all too often (oh, after more pain and misery). He ended up being a paper tiger in trying to keep England and France from over-punishing Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire (that went well, – not). And, he allowed the Middle East to be sown with the crops of jihad that we are still reaping to this day.
The only thing from that period I don't pin on his hubris is the Russian Revolution. But, he didn't help much there either.
Harrumph. Fourteen Points. Fourteen Points of Unfulfilling, Pompous Wind Bag-gage.
I am not a fan of overly-intellectual Presidents, and that includes President Carter as well. But, he is another story (and he doesn't make the bottom ten list).
February 10th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Thanks Varan. Solid insight.
Carter is convenient fodder for the rightwing noise machine. He never fit in. That might be a good thing, but we'll never know.
In any difficult time, gimme brains. The man was our only president with a degree (form the Naval Academy, no less) in nuclear physics.
Yikes.
I liked most modern presidents the longer they were away. Ford's pardon, which made me ballistic at the time, looked smarter as time passed.
And if you haven't read Reagan's notes currently published, it's absolultely fascinating. I thought he was a quarter-inch thick and eight miles wide. Not at all. His economic policies were pure fantasy (GHWB was right: voodoo economics), but damn the man could lead.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Reagan's economics were learned prior to Keynes, and so, his policies formed on that basis worked. Wilson, the racist, has long needed re-appraisal but I thought I was the only person of that view. Student gives ample reason for the moniker-keep piling up content and soon you will be extreme as well, since truth isn't relative. As Palin noted (quoting JFK) the problems of the world are not to be attributed to one's immediate predecessor. It is charming to recall that GW blamed nothing on Clinton while dumbocraps from TA to Obama blame everything on anyone else but mostly on the immediate predecessor while they flail along in their own damaging incompetences.
The prosperity of the Reagan years is NOT LIKELY to be repeated by the clown we are increasingly learning about. Serial lying is a poor method of governance. Dumbocrap policies are leading to a Depression.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
“Time-on-task probably works in primary grades, when learning patterns are established…Just try to tell Johnny's parents in May, that he needs to re-do 6th grade. When, in reality, he probably needed to re-do 3rd grade…
This gap is pronounced in urban areas. And this gap does not even account for students with learning disabililties or special needs. Who are disproportionately populating larger school districts…
It's overly expensive, the failure rate is too large, and the schrapnel is human…these kids often end up depending on us as adults, one way or another.”
This doesn't get better without parenting- black, white, brown- all colors.
Better parenting doesn't happen until we demand it as a society.
We're not demanding until we're willing to put the welfare of children first, and repeated dyfunctional parenting second.
Otherwise, we repeat this, over and over, generation by generation, and pay, and pay, and pay:
“…these kids often end up depending on us as adults, one way or another.”
Why do we think of ourselves as so civilized?
February 10th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Unfortunately, schmoozing the crowd seems to trump smarts when it comes to the Beltway.
In one manner we disagree, in difficult times give me a person of action, not a thinker. Decisiveness is much better than temporizing any day of the week. Surely, a President has spent years honing skills designed to make decisions. Then make them.
A good question for some Presidential historian, are we in an “ascending” or “good” phase with Presidents, or have we suffered from a string of “bad” ones? And what of the short term future? Continuity or “hopey-changey” of a different sort? E-yew.
My favorite President? Harry Truman. He was handed a dog's dinner without the slightest bit of preperation in 1944, and didn't let it all go to the dogs. The 1948 Presidential election result was just a bonus.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Pascal wrote: “Reagan's economics were learned prior to Keynes…”
What? Maybe you ought to look up John Maynard Keynes. Reagan wasn't that old.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Taxpayer, I've served on a school board. I've batted my head against the Superintendent-dominating wall many times. Too many times. And i know form that experience that there are many, many good parents who are captive inside the system with kids who've been socially promoted.
My phone used to ring off the wall about Oct.1, right after the first middle school report card. Good parents find out Johnny can't read past the 3rd grade, and he needs months of remediation to get grade-specific. Inevitably, Johnny struggles all through 6th grade, because he cannot keep up with the middle-school multiple-teacher format until and unless he can read and comprehend well.
Why in the hell the parents didn't know his reading level before then is a good question. But they went to all the conferences. They were in the PTO, bought the God-damned gift wrap and candy, drank the kool aid.
But they were involved. And loving. Just not the RIGHT kind of loving. If the school system had half a brian, they'd hold Johnny in 6th grade for four years if they had to.
How many times did those Johnnys get retained in 6th? Almost never.
For that and other reasons, after awhile, I gave up.
There are lousy parents, like you suggest. Too many of them. But a lot of “good” parents got caught in this trap, too. And by the time they figure it out, and wipe the sleep outta their eyes, **poof** Johnny is 12. In 6th grade. It's fixable at that point, but boy is is expensive, time-consuming and way more effort than it would've been in, oh, say…THIRD GRADE. It usually gets a C-plus fix, which frankly prepares Johnny for, oh, a mediocre high school education. Doomed.
I'm talking about a four-star school here. In a great school system. I shudder at how it's done in less-stellar school systems.
Damn I dredged up all that old crap. Now I'm depressed.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
TA…I love you, man!
February 10th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan Reagan was that old and used to joke about it.
Anent social promotion and other lies of the schools the absolute worst was when a parent you knew came up and wondered why his kid, who had been straight A all thru elementary schooling was unable to pass ISTEP. ISTEP exit exam is a dumbed down 9th grade level test. It is not a 12th grade level test BECAUSE if it were, then 90% of Indiana high school graduates would not graduate. Your 150 idiots at work.
My extremist views on government schools were not considered extreme by voters. Twice.
Thanks Sean
February 10th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Keynes was writing fundamentally important work (for his theories) in Economics in the early 1930s. That would have made the late President Reagan all of 22 years old. I'll grant you that the late president did study Economics, but I wonder how much of leading edge, European-based theory wound its way down to Eureaka College? That is an interesting question. Certainly possible.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
TA- Pardon my liberal (no pun intended) use of your earlier post. I thought you summed-up common ground, before I put my spin on it.
No disagreement on your point. We have a daughter left in the house that I'm not sure where she's going and what's best for her. But, despite big efforts from the entirety of the family, **poof**, we got one more year to pick a path.
I'm talking about dysfunctional “dysfunctional”. I mean statistics that support case worker visits every six months for a couple of years for new-birth single moms getting a taxpayer check, & capping biological parent reunification attempts with the child at 18 months, or 3 problem DCS visits- whichever comes first.
Young children can't be bondoed over like a car at the body shop. You know from your service to the community they only take so much before they're irreparably damaged. There are plenty of single mom & formerly dysfunctional parent(s) success stories. There are a disproportionate number of failures as well. When failure happens, we're talking statistics related to obeisity, graduation, drugs, incarceration, repetition of the whole cycle again, the loss of a productive taxpayer, blah, blah, blah….
I don't think this genuinely dysfunctional parenting is some moral high ground to defend- morally, statistically, or fiscally. When it descends to the level I'm speaking of, I believe it's reprehensible regardless of race, income, religion, or sex.
The cost to us all is enormous by whatever measure you apply- when we can least afford it by ANY measure.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:49 pm
Keynes wasn't known here until FDR days gave him the academic cover to play God. In saying that, you might surmise that I don't think European economic theory was worth squat. I don't-much prefering even the Austrian school with Mises to it even though Pesch was better than all of them. Pesch? Reagan learned fundamental economics with no Keynes that I know of. The Reagan policies contrasted well with Carter Keynesian poverty/inflation/stagflation preferred by Dumbocraps-see Obama, fer instance, whose policies are INSANE.
February 11th, 2010 at 1:33 am
“But I endured eight years of America's worst president ever, George W. Bush”.
I would argue that the recipient for 'worst president ever' would he Abe Lincoln.
Bush wasn't instrumental in the death of over 600,000 Americans. That's just for starters.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Appreciation for the failed brilliance of European economics, is an acquired distaste.