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Let’s Make A Deal

Now that the Indianapolis City-County Council has sent the proposed tougher  smoking ban back to committee, there’s an opportunity for Councilors to work out a reasonable compromise that can address secondhand smoke without implementing a draconian ban.

Don’t think it’s possible, of course it is.  Here’s how you do it.

  • Exempt private clubs, tobacco shops and cigar bars.
  • Ban smoking in bowling alleys that allow children.
  • Create an on-line job board of non-smoking bars so that servers and waiters who don’t want to work in a smoking environment don’t have to.
  • Work with state and local health departments to create a tobacco cessation hotline where smokers who want to quit can get help and work with bar owners to publish that number in their establishments.
  • Eliminate the “no-smoking within 25 feet”  of a non-smoking building because at that point you’ve turned an ordinary citizen walking down the street smoking a cigarette into a criminal.
  • Issue tobacco licenses to every bar and tavern that allows smoking.  As long the owner has the license, he or she can have smoking.  If they sell the business or transfer ownership the license goes back to the city which it can hold or sell.  This way, no one has to change their business model and anyone going into the bar business know exactly what they’re getting into.

I think these suggestions are pretty reasonable and can reduce the amount of tobacco consumption (a goal of the anti-smoking crowd) and still adhere to the free market and allow business people to make their own decisions as to how they want to run their establishments.  The trick will be to keep the zealots away from the table.   And seeing how they’ve been pushing this issue since March and have had no success, hopefully that won’t be too hard.

  • John Howard

    Nobody seems to ever address simply cleaning the air to efficiently remove smoke before it fills the room.

    http://www.breathepureair.com/aqe_everclear.html

  • Think Again

    John Howard: that technology exists and it doesn't work. At all.

    Your suggestions are good starting points, Abdul, except the 25-ft-from-door thing. Too many buildings have created an outdoor smoking lounge near the front door, by their outdoor-only smoking policies. That needs to be addressed.

    Another suggestion: up the fine for smokers who litter with their butts. (Yeah, you can build your own joke there…)

    I am not against cigar bars, but what's to stop business owners from declaring themselves “cigarette bars” and stocking only expensive foreign cigarettes? It's a fuzzy line, altho I appreciate your cigar bar idea.

    We wouldn't have to issue “new” tobacco licenses. Ample rules exist inside the ABC parameters…clauses culd be added to those regs regarding smoking bans in certain places. Altho that is a state statute…..

    The most-amusing part of the argument, from folks who oppose the ban, is that “government can't tell busienss owners how to operate.” Hilarious. There are already reams of paper worth of regulations for anyone who wishes to open any kind of business.

  • Dave

    The first five ideas make sense. Licensing isn't progress, it's more government & more paper that we don't need.

  • blksndy

    Licenses should be required for those who want to be smoke free, if there is going to be some kind of ban. I would propose that if a business would like to be smoke free, that they buy signs that say NO SMOKING.

  • Think Again

    Require licenses for NOT polluting the air? That's a little backward.

    Dave's onto something. Ample current regs exist which cna be codified and merged, to address smoking bans.

  • pogden297

    TA, don't you think 25 feet is a ridiculously large no smoking zone? It's going to nab people simply walking down the street.

    If you read the Smoke Free political instructions they are NEVER to accept any sort of compromise and they should let the ordinance fail if a compromise is needed to pass it. It's utter insanity.

  • IndyRacer57

    Speaking of the tobacco cessation, Where has all that tobacco money went too? It has been no help for the smoker who would like to quit. With all that money, every smoker could have been on the medication that blocks the effects of nicotine.

    Why should a business owner pay out thousands of dollars to have a smoking license? I believe the ones brought up by the amendment was going to be $1000 a year. Where is this money going to go or are they going to promise more money like the above mention, to help smokers quit. I dought it.

    Also buying a license to smoke in that building is just as before, You can smoke there but you will have to pay for the right. In other words if you show up the money, smoking now is ok.

    Think again, The point most people are trying to make is what is next? Maybe we should pass a law that forbids anyone to smoke in their own car. Maybe their own home. Last time I checked the law, tobacco is legal in America. As far as the polluting the air goes maybe we should have laws where you can only drive your car so many miles per week. Better let we could ban driving cars on the week end because exhaust fumes bother people with asma that might be out and about.

  • Name

    1-800-Quit Now
    http://www.indianatobaccoquitline.net
    Free service and you can even get two weeks of free nicotine replacement therapy

  • Woza

    One, why are you trying to be reasonable with unreasonable people.

    My second observation, these smoking rules are becoming as confusing and as illogical as football rules. This person can do that but no this, while that person can do this but not that.

    If you are going to band smoking because it polutes or is unhealthy, than lets also ban those darn scented candles, and what about those cows at the Trader's Point Creamery, do you know how much methane those things put out. And they are just allowed to roam around.

    The whole thing is just foolish.

  • Indy4U2C

    I have an idea! This is the United States of America, where freedom rings. Why don't we keep unnecessary government regulation out of private business? How about business owners decide if they want to allow smoking in their business? How about customers DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES if they want to frequent a business based upon the smoking policy, atmosphere, entertainment, dining cuisine, etc?

    Ronald Reagan said it: “Governing least is governing best.” Let freedom of choice rule on the smoking issue.

  • John Howard

    No TA, I've been in a bar up in Michigan with that technology (not the specific example I linked to. No idea whose it was) and it DOES work. Extremely well. And that was 10-15 years ago. The technology has surely improved and evolved to be even better since then.

    I sat at a table with companions who were hardcore smokers, in a roomful of smokers, and the smoke went straight up and was gone. I wasn't affected in the least. It was a remarkable situation that made a huge impression on me.

    But darn it, it cost money to install them. Maybe Smoke Free Indy could send a little of their cash to a test bar to see what happens.

  • Student

    Am I the only one tired of this debate every day?

  • Think Again

    John Howard, I've seen the industry's best products installed. They do not work. Period.

  • John Howard

    Then I must have been sitting in a cloud of magic smoke.

  • Rico

    You've got to realize by now, John, that TA has literally done and seen it all, much of which only takes place in (his) mind. But, hey, perception is reality, isn't it?

  • Guest

    it's all cool!

  • IndyAries

    Only if you are pro-Statist, and anti-Liberty.

  • IndyAries

    Yeah….in TA's world, devices used to remove tobacco smoke must remove every micro-particle, or they do not work AT ALL. But, these same machines can leave all manner of other pollutants in the air.

    It's all good….as long as it isn't that evil, deadly tobacco smoke.

  • IndyAries

    My thoughts;

    * Exempt private clubs, tobacco shops and cigar bars. / Why not exempt any establishment that wants to permit smoking ON THEIR PROPERTY?
    * Ban smoking in bowling alleys that allow children. / As long as the PROPERTY OWNER has the absolute RIGHT to decide who may enter upon THEIR PROPERTY, then okay.
    * Create an on-line job board of non-smoking bars so that servers and waiters who don’t want to work in a smoking environment don’t have to.
    * Work with state and local health departments to create a tobacco cessation hotline where smokers who want to quit can get help and work with bar owners to publish that number in their establishments. / I'll agree to “to publish that number in their establishments at their discretion.”
    * Eliminate the “no-smoking within 25 feet” of a non-smoking building because at that point you’ve turned an ordinary citizen walking down the street smoking a cigarette into a criminal. / This makes the most sense of all.
    * Issue tobacco licenses to every bar and tavern that allows smoking. As long the owner has the license, he or she can have smoking. If they sell the business or transfer ownership the license goes back to the city which it can hold or sell. This way, no one has to change their business model and anyone going into the bar business know exactly what they’re getting into. / Absolutely NO LICENSE needed for allowing legal activity ON YOUR PROPERTY. This idea is insane…unless your a Statist.

  • Think Again

    I wish there were machiens that did what you describe, John Howard. A good friend/bar owner spent $5500 each on three machines for an already-well-ventilated room that's about 1200 SF. The manufacturer's stipulations required two machines, but he bought three to be extra-sure. They were top-of-the-line.

    It helped, but the stench was still there. I don't eat food there any more. It's just not appetizing.

    That's my reality, Rico. What else ya got?

  • Woza

    TA, I love this game.

    How about: “I have a friend” who installed these machines and they did a wonderful job removing the smoke and the stench. They even helped make fat people skinny and the depressed happy. They are the best machines ever.

    What other juvenile comeback do you got?

    You and your “friends”, please, grow up.

  • Think Again

    I was stunned at the price–thought they'd be cheaper.

    At whatever price, they don't work.

    I'm all grown up; thanks though. Relax. It's an ordinance (or not). Not the end of the free world.

  • guest

    Suggestion to fine Councilman that introduced/authored the smoke free bill that failed. I would implement a tobacco choice tax. For those establishments that choose smoking, charge a 1% tax (property or sales). The money raised could be used for the Marion County Health Department to pay for cancer patients treatment. Or Smoke Free Marion County. You see it comes down to choice. If you choose to go to a smoke establishment, you choose to pay more in taxes. If you choose to go to a smoke free establishment, you pay less and don't smell like an ashtray. So libertarians, there you go. Give folks choices for good behavior (smoke free) and not so good choices (smoke) Your thoughts Indyundercover????

  • IndyRacer57

    As I stated earlier, if you come up with the money, then smoking is OK. If they really wanted to do something about smoking then they would start avocation the ban of the product. Not more money in certain peoples pocket. Why do you think that government still pays the farmer to grow tobacco?

  • IndyRacer57

    As I stated earlier, if you come up with the money, then smoking is OK. If they really wanted to do something about smoking then they would start avocation the ban of the product. Not more money in certain peoples pocket. Why do you think that government still pays the farmer to grow tobacco?

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