Why Wishard Won
I was going to start this post taking a shot at a local blogger who spent an ungodly amount of Internet space railing against the Wishard referendum but who will now likely be its first patient at the new Hospital since his head exploded when voters overwhemingly approved the measure last night. However my lovely wife said that would not be nice, so I won’t.
Wishard won because its proponents were organized opponents weren’t. Opponents can blame the media, the money and the rain. But at the end of the day, organization tends to win elections more than anything else. In 2007 we saw organized tax protesters start a revolution that changed the course of Indianapolis. In 2008 we saw organized campaigns put Indiana in the win column for Barack Obama and re-elect Mitch Daniels at a time when Democrats were winning across the country.
Wishard supporters identified their base, worked with local leaders, engaged the community, took to the airwaves and got people out to the polls. Opponents blogged about it, did a few interviews and held one news conference.
When you are organized, have a clear coherent message and engage the public and have a message rooted in optimism, you’re more likely to score points than if you are an angry, bitter and disorganized.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:06 am
Your right.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:07 am
Well, this is all moot, isn't it? I mean, they have PROMISED that We the People will NEVER be taxed for this.
“RIIGGHHHHTTTTTT” — Bill Cosby, “Noah” skit
November 4th, 2009 at 6:19 am
Still looks like a 'potshot' to me.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:03 am
You can complain about Gary Welsh all you want, but he brought facts to the debate and backed them up. I didn't really see you disputing any of those facts…just selectively ignoring them. Way to jump on the Wishard bandwagon though once it got rolling. That is your speciality.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:19 am
Sorry Paul, what you call wishy washy, I call thoughtful. I spent weeks talking to community folks and Wishard people as well; looking at all sides of the issue. It was my wife's tax bill that finally did it because I had something to quantify. We had Carl on our airwaves three times. Just accept reality, you guys aren't as influential as you wish you were. Deal with it, you'll live longer.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:24 am
I think something missing in the “organization” discussion is that when you have massively large employers and business interests pushing for something by promoting it to their employees (how many does IUPUI employee? Wishard itself?) even before we start talking about construction contractors or whatever else it definitely slants things.
There was no doubt that Wishard was going to pass and Franklin Twp was going to tell the schools enough is enough (although I'm surprised by higher margins than I expected).
If the media just reported that “a new hospital is going to be built using funds of dubious origin and backstopped by up to $2,400 in additional taxes per Marion County family” the results might be different. But, nobody takes $800 million (we can all assume cost overruns, yes? [library... cough cough]) and divides it by the number of families in the County to determine what each family's portion as “co-signer” is.
I don't have a strong opinion either way on whether there needed to be a new hospital or not, but the way this was worded to voters (most of whom don't read Advance Indiana or Indiana Barrister [unfortunately]) is shameful.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:49 am
In a number of large precincts, voting for Wishard was almost unanimous.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:17 am
Here's what I saw at my voting place, where I worked all day:
(Background: two large precincts, probably 1800 or so total voters. Mid-northside. Both voted for Obama in 08. Together, the precincts are about 35-40% Afircan-American. One precinct is about 51% baseline Dmeocratruc; one is about 59% baseline D).
Yesterday, we voted about 18-20%. Which is about three times the countywide rate. Of our vote, an unscientific observation is that 70-75% was African-American. Here's what the day went like:
It was a gigantic IPS reunion, all day long. “I went to School 23…” “I went to Marshall…” etc. You get the point.
This was across generational lines. Folks 50-plus were adamant, and their IPS roots were discussed and the memories were rich, funny and full. Lots of smiles and back-slapping. Younger folks were one or two generations removed form IPS, but respectful. Very young folks who voted, and there weren't many, were there in scrubs, or going to/from work, or there as a sense of obligation.
I've worked polls for 40 years and I've never seen anything like it in my life. It was a unique election, to be sure–one question on the ballot. But yesterday I saw a lot of love for Wishard. Tons of it. Actually, it was more like cross-generational appreciation for what is was, and is–whether folks used it now or not.
Our combined precincts' vote was 294-24.
So Sean, and others, you can grouse all you want about taxpayers' money and other issues you tried to raise. I read Gary's blog, too, and admired his courage and his points. But the community spoke loudly yesterday, and I think they said one thing more than anything else:
Even if I don't use Wishard, I might have to someday. I want it to be strong.
Whether you like that message or not, it's compelling. I have lived through elections where the results were opposite of my opinions, and some sickened me–think Nixon 1972. Bush 2000. But I lived through all of them, and their aftermath.
I have a cousin teaching in China who said Chinese schoolkids were glued to their TVs and computers yesterday wathcing us vote in a handful of elections. By my unscientific count, about 4-5 million of us voted in some kind of election nationally. That's a small percentage of our nation. But these Chinese kids were fascinated with that small view of democracy. Kinda puts it all in perspective, doesn't it?
November 4th, 2009 at 8:19 am
Offhand, does anybody have the total number of employees for the City-County and for the various IU Medical groups?
November 4th, 2009 at 8:46 am
Hey I agree with Sean, I suspect when the nursing home money drys up and they come to the council for more money it will be the CIB all over again. The Indy Star did very little to educate the people on what could happen if the money drys up. Of course it's the same newspaper that said that the city buying the water company and building Lucas Oil was good for the city. Obviously in the newspaper business to become an editor calls for no math skills. Anyone with basic math skills could have concluded that they were both bad deals. The same goes with the Wishard referendum.
As for the Franklin Township Schools taxes were out of control for so many years that when the people finally got a tax break they just weren't going to give it up. Of course the schools didn't get to write the wording of the referendum as misleading as the Wishard folks were able to. The main problem in Franklin Township is the states funding per student is totally out of whack with reality. The funding for each student should be exactly the same (allowing extra money for transportation) throughout the state. Well maybe the law suit will force the state to come up with a better way to distribute money to the schools. The fact that IPS gets more money per student then the township schools with declining enrollment and a dismal graduation rate speaks volumes about our education system. We basically are rewarding bad schools by throwing more money at them. As I recall the Democrats were the ones opposed to more charter schools. Instead of the charter schools lets do the voucher system and let the free market decide where our kids go to school. Parents that care will move heaven and earth to make sure kids get a good education. As for everyone else you reap what you sow.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Varan–IBJK publishes a Book of Lists every year, and it lists largest employers. It might be available on http://www.ibj.com
November 4th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Abdul this post comes across condescending and arrogant. Perhaps the opponents are too busy trying to scratch out a living so that they can keep their homes to have time and resources to organize against insiders with all the advantages.
Regarding being bitter and angry. That's what happens to people when their money is taken from them against their will and their standard of living is not improved.
As for me, I still read your blog. I don't turn on the radio in the morning anymore and listen to your show. And the first thing I read every day?
That would be Advance Indiana.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:03 am
And Abdul? Perhaps if you looked at my property tax statement or that of 200 of my neighbors who recently got massive assessment increases (on top of 2007 increases) you would be open minded enough to present a more well-reasoned perspective.
And again, lets not forget that on top of these tax increases we also got a 1 penny sales tax increase which is a 17% sales tax hike.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Advance Indiana dug for facts the media would not, but the lack of ground game didn't get it done. From it's stealth creation and introduction, to wording a middle-schooler would be chastised for, to cash flow compounding the inefficiency of Medicare, to a murky IU relationship begging investigation, to an overall treatment of voters like standby cattle- providing needed fiscal sustinence if called upon- this one stinks. I agree people vote based upon an individual calculation of facts and emotion. How much longer shall justifying a public project be made on emotion and leave most of the facts out? As long as we allow it at the polls.
.
Franklin Township, the VA & NJ elections, the showing by a conservative non-Republican in NY, and D.C. Senate Democrats acknowledging health “reform” may not happen in 2009 show the pendulum may have swung as far as it's going for now. Will we now elect not Republicans, Democrats, or Libertarians, but people that will do the hard things that need to be done in a reduced economy? You tell me. Not without enough cumulative emotion and ground game.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Guy; I agree with your post regarding Franklin Twp School taxes… in regards to having to make cuts, I recieved at least 2 mailings in school district envelopes regarding a 'yes vote'..they did not even use bulk mailing postage, instead a metered 44 cent stamp! So much for cutting costs.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Thanks, TA. I'll have a look.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:37 am
A few more victories like this POS and we will be undone-Pyrrus.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Guy–your school facts are so off-base I don't know where to start. But the overall Franklin point is solid: that school district is out of control. In every respect. And they're turning out sub-standard product by any measure. Their nearly $10-million footbal stadium a few years ago started the ball rolling down a silly hill. And the sillier thing is, their football teams aren't that good. They built a palace for mediocrity and it's not even in the classroom. You Franklin folks vote in these fools who are nothing more than lapdogs for expensive-taste superintendents.
Democrats didn't universally oppose charters or vouchers. Several GOP legislators did, too. But neither is a panacea. The nearly-universal result of states who did either/both, is mixed at best.
State funding per pupil is relatively equal, all over the state. District variables are considered for students more-difficult to teach: poor, special education, those needing extra help. What's skewered are the base assumptions for assessed valuation of the school district. And that will take years to correct because we've now changed our assessment methods.
That's why it was important to switch the entire state to a value-based system. A home's worth will determine your taxes, or at least that's the goal. That is much easier for folks to understand, and it's how most states do it. The short-term problem in Indiana came about because our legislature waited until the last possible minute to fix the problem, which the State Tax Court, under Judge Fisher, judged illegal seven years prior. They had scores of chances to phase-in a fix. They took the political easy road. For your edumacation, try reading Judge Fisher's original ruling. It's a work of art.
Melyssa, I think this is correct, but someone here will surely point it out if I'm wrong: sales tax increases are almost exclusively the domain of Republican governors, starting with Otis Bowen's ridiculous doubling and his establishment of the “Property Tax Replacement Fund” to “lower” property taxes. That formula started the most-expensive and ridiculously skewered tax shell game in our state's history…the baseline formula is in place still, since 1973.
Ain't that a kick in the pants? They get away with calling themselves fiscal conservatives, and push through increases in sales taxes? History is a keen evaluator of future performance.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Funny to hear the talk about 'overwhelming support from voters' when less that 10% bothered to cast a vote. More like 'overwhelming apathy.'
If there was a secure way to twitter in their votes, I wonder if people could find time to do this simple but important thing.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Melyssa does make a good point in that the opposition to big government spending or increased bloat is almost never people getting paid full-time to market, advertise, advocate or promote.
Unfortunately, when there are millions (or hundreds of millions) of dollars involved it is well worth people's time to invest in getting their hands on that money. For the common taxpayer who may be looking at $20 a year or $100 a year or a few dimes here and there – any one thing doesn't seem that big deal.
After it all gets added on over the years and added up at the end. Then it's real money.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:25 am
I wouldn't even call it apathy. Despite going to IUPUI whos campus is plastered with Pro-Wishard signs, many don't even know there was a vote yesterday.
I like how critics of the opponents, Abdul and Tully, pan them for not being organized, not making their case as strongly as HHC. What they seem to forget is that most of us talk, speak, and act in politics as a hobby. We do it when we have time, even if we'd like to do it more often. Otherwise, we have jobs, schools, family, and other committments we have to attend to, so sometimes we can't attend a 3-4 hour City county meeting, or a HHC presentation on the other side of town.
What they also seem to forget is that the Wishard proponents were well organized because, for at least HHC, it has been their job since last July. When you have two very well connected, very bright people whose actual job is to get this passed, it's no surprise that the opponents look pitiful. But put me in charge of a municipal corporation, give me a few million dollars from some PACs and a not-for-profit to work with, and I could work wonders too.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Not only are we not paid to fight entrenched paid insiders such as those privileged paid that pushed the Wishard referendum through, we don't get to promote our message using taxpayer funds either.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:31 am
TA…Thanks for bringing up Republicans and tax increases. I found it shameful that Mitch Daniels (as good as he is) would stoop so low as to campaign on not raising taxes, when he gave us a 17% sales increase.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:33 am
There's lots of losers crying in their beer after being skunked bigtime on defeating Wishard Hospital…
November 4th, 2009 at 10:39 am
The vote was not “Should Wishard close? Y/N?”. The referendum itself was a love letter to Wishard that didn't mention anything such as a new hospital, cost, etc…
A vote was held on if HHC can take out bonds backed by property taxes so they can get a lower rate on them, and if they default/over budget then taxpayers can foot the bill.
But hey, why queston a motive when you can just blindly fill in the Yes box, or let the Wishard employeees and lobbyists vote while everyone else stays home.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:46 am
You all realize this just adds one more reason to the all ready long list of reasons to move out of Marion County.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:51 am
By the way Abdul…I am curious about something. I've mentioned several times on your blog and other blogs you read that my assessment went up $47,000. You have my phone number. You know how to reach me.
I'm curious why you don't own your words of being the guy that looks at all sides. Why didn't you call me to compare my recent property tax assessment (or any one of my neighbors) to that of your wife? Why did you only look at one bill to come to this conclusion when you saw the complaints of others who are paying more and got no benefit of the sham of tax caps.
You act is if your wife's assessment is indicative of everyone's bill.
It is not.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Come on Mr. Status Quo..give them a break. The mainstream media was 99.9% pro-Wishard. All they see are future news stories that will fill time slots/print space:
“Old State Board of Health gets the wrecking ball for new Wishard. Read about the history of the BOH on page whatever.”
“LaRue Carter gets the wrecking ball for the new Wishard.”
“Construction problems at new Wishard construction site.”
Etc., etc. etc..
Not only that, the question on the ballet was a complete and total joke. I really wonder if it would have passed had it simple stated some text along the lines of “If Wishard doesn't make enough money to pay these bonds, your property taxes will go up.”, if that would have caused some folks to vote no.
Either way, a none issue to me. I purposely avoided buying a home in Marion Co. for this exact reasoning. No one will care about the new Wishard, unless they start seeing a hundred dollars or so more going to property taxes. If this does happen, I hope everyone reminds them this is what they voted for.
For the local bloggers who are upset, just do what I did and don't live in Indy. Seriously, it isn't that hard. I bet your property taxes will be cut in half if you buy a home in Hancock or Shelby County. It only takes 25 mins. to even get downtown from those areas. You can have affordable urban living in this area, without the outrageous urban taxation. Not only will you likely save in property taxes, but if you eat out in your new home county, instead of sending 2% to Ir$ay, you will only be sending him .5%.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:02 am
John Doe, you make a very good point about leaving Marion County. I hate giving money to Ir$ay. I don't get any measureable return for the increased property tax I pay and meanwhile I see my tax dollars go directly into the pockets of elite insiders who don't even live in my county.
I have a deep emotional attachment to my neighborhood or I would leave. However, there will surely come a point of taxation when the money I spend to keep my home will supercede my emotional attachment.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:12 am
“That's why it was important to switch the entire state to a value-based system. A home's worth will determine your taxes, or at least that's the goal. That is much easier for folks to understand, and it's how most states do it.”
The problem I have with property taxes are that property is shelter, and therefore shouldn't be subjected to the possibility of obscene taxation. It is funny that certain folks don't want to tax folks pulling in six-figures a year, saying it punishes achievement. Well shoveling five figure property taxes bills on $400K MK area homes does the same thing. The difference is that high incomes aren't needed for survival as much as a home is. Someone who got lucky 25 years ago and got a good deal on a home, that is now paid off, shouldn't automatically be looked upon as rich.
This is why I support a more streamlined approach to property taxes: Base it on the size of the lot, the size of the home…no more. If the schools find they don't get that much money from such a system, then totally remove schools from property taxes and deal with their funding via income taxes. Find a fair way to risk schools from those with % of more poor students to those filled with more higher income background students. Find a fair way to give the poor schools a little more and be done with it.
“There's lots of losers crying in their beer after being skunked bigtime on defeating Wishard Hospital…”
Every single one of those “losers” seem to be a productive member of society. I won't call them names like you. Maybe with enough name calling, they will take their incomes out of Marion Co and move to a surrounding country where they will get to keep more of the fruits of their labor. I would welcome such people to my area, as I would rather have them than welfare layabouts and bums that do nothing but consume resources and never give back. The voters of Marion Co. can continue to pass these tax hiking, or possible tax hiking, projects every year. Simple fact is that if taxes go through the roof, Marion Co. will eventually resemble that of Detroit. People won't take it, and without another state bailout, people in Meridian-Kessler, Butler-Tarkington…they may have no recourse but to flee.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Using the actual turnout from the 2004 General Election, the numbers of actual voters likely being more representative than the 2008 one, I conclude the following about the 2009 referendum on Wishard:
10% voted Yes
2% voted No
88% seem to have had some reason for not bothering to show up and be counted.
While the Yes voters certainly overwhelmed the No voters, the important number here is the 88% who didn't bother to vote, and that doesn't even count the other 280,000+ registered voters who rarely show up on any given election day.
I think that citizens will find out soon enough that local government will take that as self-validation for whatever future taxing schemes they might think up over a white wine or light beer down at the old political watering hole and pick up joint.
November 4th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Again Abdul, I posted numerous times about my most recent tax assessment increase of $47,000. I also mentioned that 200 of my neighbors in the “poor” part of MK also got hit. A few homes had assessment increases of more than 50% of their homes' value in a very down housing market. Did you ask once to look at my tax assessment or that of my neighbors when I reported to you on this blog more than once about what was going on?
Question is why would you only look at one tax bill to come up with your conclusion?
November 4th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Wishard's “victory” has a “postal” quality to it. Lance Armstrong is an amazing athlete, but the US Postal service, spending tax dollars to advertise or sponsor a professional cycling team is irresponsible. It's wasteful, unsustainable government.
Liberty indeed requires vigilance. However, outside a few elected officials (and thanks to them for their efforts), where's the elected, “organized opposition,” to abuses of public process? Post the referendum as worded, excepted & accepted by the legislature, & let folks judge accordingly.
The problem is not that Wishard made a public request by referendum. The absence of oversight & responsibility for this process by elected representatives is the real problem.
The Secretary of State & Attorney General run ads to warn & protect citizens from consumer trickery. Read the Wishard referendum, then try to explain how it meets those very standards. If “fairness” matters in business practices, what about the practice of policy?
This is likewise a mindset problem, bureau-brained, govern-mental cave clatching, “government good- business bad.” Government oversees business (i.e. concrete problems on library projects), while avoiding oversight itself; in any proportion that's relevant to its ineptitude or lack of qualification & purpose. It seems that those standing on the cardboard bottom, only talk; about “thinking outside the box.”
November 4th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Have you ever seen Wilson make a post without either directly insulting another user or a broad group?
November 4th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I know that. That's why if you read what I wrote, I said it was the right decision for her. Other people might reach a different conclusion based on their tax bill.
November 4th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
That was a 4 million dollar stadium not 10.
November 4th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
…but Abdul, it's always all about Melyssa !
November 4th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Wishard had 1Million dollars donated to send me nonstop postcards saying no tax increase. What citizen group could ever best that? I do not think that the public realized anything but “-no tax increase “because they were not given the facts. So Abdul, I guess you don't care that the referendum language was a bold face factless lie? The following is a quote from Luke Kenleys reply to me re why they could put the misleading lie in a referendum question leaving out pertinent facts for us to make an informed decision:
“I can understand your frustration, but your blame on the legislature is misplaced. When this was originally requested, they didn't want it to go to a referendum. My position was that if Marion Co. legislators wanted it, that they could put a referendum on the ballot. I was, and am skeptical that this bond will not eventually rely on property taxes.”
Regardless of support for or against, the bigger problem is that they could present this referendum question the way they did? I hope that the citizens do not let this problem in the making be ignored. Of course the city and state are glad you were suckered into this. Property taxpayers you have been had.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Blame on legislature misplaced? I didn't see Kenly speaking out against the referendum (unless I missed something). Why wasn't Kenley out front on this matter on behalf of the people? But Kudos to the reps who were out front for us.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Look folks.
While Abdul is now jumping on the bandwagon, he was not an early and frequent cheerleader like the Star, Amos on WTLC, or Greg Garrision on WIBC .
He was much more objective, and was one of the few in the media that aired the concerns from the local blogs. He understood that most “opponents” to the Wishard referendum didn't oppose a new hospital, but just wanted a better deal for taxpayers.
Abdul's initial post is correct. Wishard supporters were much better organized and financed. They spun a good story, motivated key stakeholders groups to vote, gained key media outlet support early, and never looked back.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Just abuse another guy in your basement once a week, problem solved Missy.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Nick: You're somehow making the point that government is now better at preying upon than protecting us as it's responsible & chartered to do…
November 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Nick, of course Wishard supported were better organized and financed. When you have IUPUI's chancellor using their e-mail system and newsletter for faculty to promote, Ballard using the city's e-mail system to promote, an entire municipal corporation that's promoting it, and at least one PAC with $1million + dollars promoting it, anyone could do a better job than a handful of citizens who are writing and investigating in their free time.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
I prefer to do my thing above ground these days. If there is one thing I cannot stand. It's a hypocrite, coward, or liar.
Name? Your cowardice is typical of your ilk who hide behind anonymous internet postings. If your opinion mattered, you would not be ashamed to put your name to it.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
“Nick, of course Wishard supported were better organized and financed. When you have IUPUI's chancellor using their e-mail system and newsletter for faculty to promote, Ballard using the city's e-mail system to promote, an entire municipal corporation that's promoting it, and at least one PAC with $1million + dollars promoting it, anyone could do a better job than a handful of citizens who are writing and investigating in their free time.”
Not only that, a bunch of medical folks who likely stand to financially gain from this, but yet don't live in Marion Co. to pay for any possible tax hike, could have easily donated a hundred here or there to support Wishard, knowing that in the worst case scenario, they wouldn't be paying for it. How is that for leveling the playing field.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Need to ask, who was Wishard running against?
I do believe the 3 televised debates is where Wishard won it. Wishard was more charismatic and photogenic than its opponent. Plus, Wishard promised “read my lips, no new taxes” which everyone bought hook, line and sinker.
When Wishard runs for re-election in 4 years, will it have accomplished its campaign promises???
Oh wait, it was a referendum vote (aka popularity contest). No one will be held accountable. Can you say Hello Marion County Central Library again?
Funny, how these massive expensive publicly funded projects has no elected official accountable in the end (see CIB/Lucas/Pacers/Convention Center/Marion County Central Library)?
Accountability, we don't need no stinking accountability.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Look folks: this referendum was done based on the rules established by the legislature.
Your complaints may have justification. But direct it at the source–our wonderful legislature. The chicken-hearted govern-by-least crowd.
They estbalished the framework by which the referendum would be conducted and the language to be used. Or should I say: language which COULD be used.
There is ample room for complaint about process. But complaining about outcome is short-sighted and unfair. Wishard played by the rules.
Now, if they'd really wanted to run this under the radar, they could've paid for a referendum on a date that isn't typically an “election day.” and when there were no other issues on the ballot. If they pay for the election, technically, they could've asked for a Saturday vote. That would've really cooked the books.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
No.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
No.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
More whining and complaining from Melyssa. If you are that unhappy and overtaxed. please move to some rural county where there are low taxes..[also no services] There are lots of men there who would like to be punished and humiliated.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
I love how a Democrat is employing the same “You're either with us or against us”/if you don't like it then you can GET OUT methodology as George W. Bush.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Even though the legislature screwed up mainly by not reading the amendments to the budget that were slipped in at the last minute, that doesn't discredit the media with extremely one sided coverage and government officials using taxpayer supported methods to promote a political message.
Personally, I'm sick of the defense of “Well, it's legal.” Yeah, how HHC promoted this was legal (arguably, not how the mayor and IUPUI's chancellor promoted it). It's also legal for the school's to promote their referendums with taxpayer funded avenues too. It's also legal for the Republicans to re-district before the 2010 census is known. But just because all of these are legal doesn't make it right.
November 5th, 2009 at 3:52 am
“More whining and complaining from Melyssa. If you are that unhappy and overtaxed. please move to some rural county where there are low taxes..[also no services] There are lots of men there who would like to be punished and humiliated.”
You don't have to move to a “rural county” where there are “no services” for lower taxes. Move in almost any county surrounding Marion Co. and I bet your taxes will drop at least 10%, maybe even 25%. My guess is that a few counties your taxes will drop by almost 50%. Plenty of services in other areas as well. Hell, even the once distinctively Indy businesses have opened up second or third locations in Greenwood/Carmel areas. Some of those areas even have their own distinct businesses that don't have an original Indy location.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:21 am
Kenly(sp?) “out in front”. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), was that he introduced the amendment, wording, whatever it's called for the referendum into the assembly along with Bill Crawford.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:23 am
Odd that people are shocked that government would act immorally or illegally.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:29 am
Matt has a point. But Wishard was out there full-on. Who didn't know there was a referendum?
If folks didn't know, then I'm not certain they should've voted.
The referendum question on the ballot was a love letter. No doubt. But it was approved by the authorities who oversee that issue.
Again–take it to the legislature.
And good luck with that group of Village Idiots.
November 5th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I'm trying to think about what “services” I get here in Marion County that are so great as compared to a rural or surrounding country where my taxes (and the local crime rate) would be considerably lower.
Let's see. I don't go to the library because I have high speed wireless internet and a mobile Macbook. I don't need the library, yet I am paying for a boondoggle of a construction project that went 3x over budget.
I don't have kids, so I don't benefit from sending them to one of the poorest performing school systems in the country — IPS.
If I did have kids and lived where I do, I would have to pay separate tuition for them to get a minimally decent education at a private school.
And, last I checked I live in one of the country's top crime ridden cities.
Tell me again please what I'm getting for my tax dollars?
And if anyone thinks that Wishard won't tap our collateral (homes) when they go way over budget on construction (and they will), I've got some swamp land for you.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:59 am
Proponent engineered, drafting, placement & timing, can do “an Enron” around public interest. Informationally disarmed citizens are poorly served; by disclosure deficiencies coupled with emotive drafting that “hallmarks” citizens to adopt referenda, like fuzzy, warm bellied kittens & puppies.
If a “policy” requires Trojan horsing it ain't cricket. Why confuse failed oversight (failure) with “authority?”
November 6th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Proponent engineered, drafting, placement & timing, can do “an Enron” around public interest. Informationally disarmed citizens are poorly served; by disclosure deficiencies coupled with emotive drafting that “hallmarks” citizens to adopt referenda, like fuzzy, warm bellied kittens & puppies.
If a “policy” requires Trojan horsing it ain't cricket. Why confuse failed oversight (failure) with “authority?”