It’s the People’s Turn
Today is referendum day in Marion County. Voters, about 15% by my last count, will go to the polls and vote on a new hospital for Wishard, and school referendums in Franklin and Perry Townships as well as Beech Grove.
Wishard supporters say they are cautiously optmisitc about today’s outcome, but are still encouraging their supporters to get out to the polls. There is some underground resistance in Franklin Township. I’m told Perry Township has done a good job of communicating with its residents. However things are 50/50 in Beech Grove.
If you vote today, let IB know how you voted and why. I think it’s pretty interesting to get into the thought process of the smarter than average voter.
November 3rd, 2009 at 6:01 am
It's your Constitutional right, your civic duty, your money, your property & your community. Vote!
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:39 am
Last week I recieved the property tax bill, somewhat lower for a change than previous years. The school district is asking for more tax money and then there is the possibility that more taxes will be paid if the Wishard project goes awry…voted no across the board.
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:46 am
Gary and Paul did a much better job than anyone else on this matter, better facts, better commentary, better everything. I'm off to vote against liars aided by Ryerson. I'm pretty happy with Greg Garrison being dismantled by his radio guests on this matter. What's one more multi billion dollar stupidity for Indianapolis?
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:54 am
So why are they conceding defeat? The votes haven't even been counted yet.
November 3rd, 2009 at 8:17 am
I voted for Wishard, our taxes will go up from a lot less useful things than a badly needed new hospital.
November 3rd, 2009 at 9:21 am
I will vote no. Possible over runs and other costs have been ignored. The structures are not 150 year old, maybe there are a few bricks that old now.
I do not see how it can be built for the $800 mil that has been presented.
The referendum process depends more on full disclosure and knowledge than there has been here. Yes, a hospital is needed at some point but the case for taxpayer guarantees has not been made yet. Guarantees are real where extra costs have been ignored.
November 3rd, 2009 at 9:22 am
I voted for Wishard- If we can pay more in taxes for a football stadium, why the hell is it a problem to help fund a hospital?
I voted against the Franklin Township tax increases- Us taxpayers in Franklin Township have paid some of the highest property tax rates in the County over the years. We are FINALLY getting a break with the tax caps. If the tax increases pass, I will be paying nearly as much in property tax as I did before the caps went into effect. That is UNACCEPTABLE.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:04 am
“If the tax increases pass, I will be paying nearly as much in property tax as I did before the caps went into effect. That is UNACCEPTABLE.”
And if Wishard pulls a fast one, you might be on the hook for a hundred or so more per year in additional property taxes.
The Ir$ay stadium at least used voluntary taxes, to some extent, and not property. To me, having a home is shelter, one of the few needs of human survival. Government should be able to tax such a need, at least not at massive, inconsistent ways.
I do think a new Wishard would be nice, and is likely needed. The problem I have is that a large portion of the hospital wouldn't even be hospital at all, it would be office space. Plus, IU is going to get a lot of out this, yet they are not offering any of their foundation money to help pay for any part of the hospital that I know of. At the same time, they jack tuition, don't give raises, yet haven't cut any fat in terms of executive administration. IU runs, to some extend, the Wishard ER. They should at least be paying for the costs of the ER construction. If anything, IU should use their fund raising skills to at least try and help drum up some more donation money for Wishard…if they already haven't.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:12 am
Who conceded defeat? I hope you didn't say I did. I made an election prediction as I do before every election. By the way, I correctly picked Ballard to win, correctly picked Obama to win Indiana, and for the second presidential election in a row the row picked all 50 of 51 states (counting D.C. as a state) correctly in the electoral college. I'm generally good with election predictions.
The fact is to go up against an organized opponent like the Wishard folks in an off year election is virtually impossible. The turnout will be low and dominated by people who have an intense self-interest in the outcome. That is the health care workers and their friends and families who may feel (wrongly) that their jobs are at stake. For the property tax owner the pain is more spread out, which means less intensity. And of course, they have even been trying to diffuse the concern those folks have by telling people the lie that property taxes won't be used to pay for the bonds.
Then you mix in the biased wording of the question, and Wishard's use of public resources to support the referendum. It's an almost impossible hurdle to overcome. In a regular election year, it might be 50-50 on passing. But in an off-year, low turnout election, the advantage in for the more organized interest groups supporting the “yes” vote goes way up. That's politics 101 folks. Don't for a second think the H&H folks did not know this when they lobbied to have the referendum in an off year rather than a a regular election year.
I expect Wishard to pass 70-30. If the losing “No” side exceeds 35%, which I don't expect, then I would say that the backlash out there is bigger than expected that politicians need to be concerned about in future elections.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:55 am
perry voter here and went with a no on both counts. On the perry issue it seemed the math was off, and this was an almost 100 million phase 1 plan. 38,000 square foot addition to get less square footage per student? The wishard issue, those that pay attention may not be out in the numbers that are needed. If they dont need property tax dollars let them prove it
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Okay, Paul, how about a quick prediction on New Jersey, Virginia, and NY 23?
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Do you guys forget that we're also paying a one penny higher sales tax along with the property tax caps, which for many did not make their taxes go down.
I voted “no” on referendum this morning. So Garrison's audience gave him hell for being in the tank with Wishard? From what I've heard him say and watched him do, he seems quite cozy with the “combine” in Indy.
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Why is the Wishard matter on the ballot as referendum if they don't need property tax money?
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I voted without having to present ID. Is this common? I hope not.
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:41 pm
My ID is always checked. You should report this problem and the person who let you vote without checking your ID.
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
I had to show it while I was voting early at the City-County building. At my normal polling precinct, my mother knows the people personally and she has to show ID.
As Melyssa said, you should report the problem.
November 3rd, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Abbie,
Make no mistake about it, this is a indirect result of the GOP's tea party.
State lawmaker recovering from attack in Carmel
By Brien McElhatten
http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/68091137...
Story Published: Oct 31, 2009 at 7:24 PM EST
(Story Updated: Nov 1, 2009 at 10:18 AM EST )
CARMEL, Ind. (Indiana's NewsCenter) – State Representative Ed DeLaney (D, Indianapolis) is recovering in a Carmel hospital after an apparent attempt on his life.
Carmel police say 38-year old Augustus Mendenhall of Indianapolis lured the lawmaker to a fake meeting where he tried to shoot DeLaney. When the handgun jammed, police say Mendenhall beat the representative.
Mendenhall is in jail without bond on charges including attempted murder, robbery and aggravated battery.
DeLaney is being treated for two broken bones in his face as well as cuts and bruises.
DeLaney, along with his Wife and Daughter is an attorney in his firm DeLaney and DeLaney
November 3rd, 2009 at 4:24 pm
I voted at about 4:00pm today and found that there was a very low turn out at my place of voting. If fact I was only the 39th person to vote. BTW, I voted yes only because Wishard takes care of the uninsured. Any news about our council woman that has been absent these last few meetings? In trouble with the law again?
November 4th, 2009 at 3:40 am
“I voted for Wishard, our taxes will go up from a lot less useful things than a badly needed new hospital.” — mike-dp
“I voted for Wishard- If we can pay more in taxes for a football stadium, why the hell is it a problem to help fund a hospital?” — Namon
Looks like the over-riding theme in the above two votes is the inevitability of We the People being slapped with more property taxes to pay for Wishard.
Is this something like the old adage, “When rape is inevitable, lie back and try to enjoy it”?
FYI for Mike and Namon — if you want a roof over your head, there is NOTHING voluntary about property taxes. The taxes for the Ir$ay Playground are somewhat 'voluntary' — you can choose not to pay the tax if you choose not to eat outside of your home.
“Why is the Wishard matter on the ballot as referendum if they don't need property tax money?” — Melyssa
This way, WHEN Wishard fails, and their lies to us come home, they can say that WE 'volunteered' to pick up the tab.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:40 am
“I voted for Wishard, our taxes will go up from a lot less useful things than a badly needed new hospital.” — mike-dp
“I voted for Wishard- If we can pay more in taxes for a football stadium, why the hell is it a problem to help fund a hospital?” — Namon
Looks like the over-riding theme in the above two votes is the inevitability of We the People being slapped with more property taxes to pay for Wishard.
Is this something like the old adage, “When rape is inevitable, lie back and try to enjoy it”?
FYI for Mike and Namon — if you want a roof over your head, there is NOTHING voluntary about property taxes. The taxes for the Ir$ay Playground are somewhat 'voluntary' — you can choose not to pay the tax if you choose not to eat outside of your home.
“Why is the Wishard matter on the ballot as referendum if they don't need property tax money?” — Melyssa
This way, WHEN Wishard fails, and their lies to us come home, they can say that WE 'volunteered' to pick up the tab.