IP$ $alary $chedule
As Indianapolis Public Schools look to cut $12 million from their budget, I decided to take a look at the salaries of the district’s more than 5400 employees. The highest paid salary was Dr. Eugene White who makes $240,640 in salary and benefits. The lowest paid employee is Devonna Craig, a food service employee who made $7,483 in salary and benefits. The top 10 salaries are listed below.
- Eugene White, Superintendent – $240,640.
- Willie Giles, Deputy Superintendent - $189,361.
- Li-yen Johnson, Associate Superintendent – $163,862
- Jackie Clency, Assistant Superintendent – $151,645.
- Jane Kendrick , Assistant Superintendent – $151, 645.
- Wayne Wellington, Chief Vocational Career Tech – $151,645.
- Dorothy Crenshaw, Chief Information Officer – $150,548.
- Douglass Ann Kincaid, Chief of Staff for Development – $150,548.
- Jane Ajabu, Chief of Human Resources – $150,548.
- Steven Young, Chief Facilities Manager – $150,548.
Here’s a breakdown of the rest of the employee salaries…
- There are 173 employees who make between $100,000 – $150,000 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 171 employees who make between $90,000 – $99,000 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 944 employees who make between $80,000 – $89,999 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 621 employees who make between $70,000 – $79,999 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 531 employees who make between $60,000 – $69,999 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 673 employees who make between $50,000 – $59,999 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 1430 employees who make between $40,000 – $49,999 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 531 employees who make between $30,000 – $39,999 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 720 employees who make between $20,000 – $29,999 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 133 employees who make between $10,000 – $19,999 annually in salary and benefits.
- There are 12 employees who make less than $10,000 annually in salary and benefits.
If were an IPS parent and the school was threatening to cut my kids programs, I’d be furious. IPS looks like it spends a lot of money on things it can outsource or privatize and save money. The district spends more than $850,000 on painters. It has more than 70 employees classified as “head custodians” and spends nearly $4 million in salary and benefits annually. The head custodians should not be confused with the 260 odd “staff custodians” whose salaries alone top $10 million annually. It has more than 80 police officers which is bigger than some Indiana cities, that cost by my estimate, more than $3.7 million. The list goes on.
If I can get my blog to work right in the next couple of days, I will upload the list so you can see it yourself. But for a district that spends more than $317 million on salaries and benefits alone, I have a hard time believing it can’t find $12 million in cuts (less than 4% of the total budget) that won’t harm kids.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:24 am
In terms of deputies, for the size of the district, Eugene is doing no worse than the townships. Which ain't saying much, but….
The biggest outrage on this list is the Chief Information Officer salary. Although, she's got heavy water to lift. Still, they could hire out that PR slacker job for less.
IF a building-level administrator is good, (s)he earns their money in IPS. Paying the principal $125,000 isn't out of line, in my never-to-be-humble opinion. Eighty percent of the principals are going to battle every day in a freaking war zone. I wouldn't do it.
The real problem is, superintendents these days, think the real heavy lifting is done in the central office. They couldn't be more wrong. It's done in the classroom. That's a different subject, I know…and teacher salaries are bargained under contracts.
But until we rid our school systems of these insane top-down mentalities, we are doomed to failure.
Another problem IPS has its the sacred cows. Eugene inherited a dozen or so high-paid admins who are basically clocking their time to retirement. Want names? If you're truly interested, there are many out there who could provide them.
Eugene is all about “reform” until someone tells him his cabinet meetings need to be smaller. Then he puckers up like a Granny Smith apple. And don't dare ever cross Eugene, or hog the spotlight more than him. Vindictive is his middle name. Ask Jeffrey White. There's only one peacock allowed at IPS.
Countdown to Eugene's retirement: over-under is 2012. Not that long, really. Then the real fun begins–who wants that job?
November 24th, 2009 at 7:00 am
Interesting information. What was your source and/or can you do something similar for Franklin Township schools? Would be interesting to see that given the Superintendent's comments about drastic cuts on the heels of the referendum that failed.
November 24th, 2009 at 7:01 am
“…that won't harm kids”? IPS harms kids in many manners and has for decades. IPS isn't about kids and hasn't been…for decades. But, to your credit you are actually looking into the budget and no one else is even though you managed to get it into the public's hands.
November 24th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Listed next are the results of a March 11, 2009, Watchdog Indiana Public Debate Challenge to the Franklin Township Community School Corporation.
FTCSC POSITION: Dr. Walter D. Bourke, Superintendent. The Franklin Township Community School Corporation (FTCSC) is facing difficulties in two areas as a result of recent property tax cap legislation. The direct impact of the legislation is that FTCSC will have revenue shortfalls that will impact the Capital Projects Fund, the Transportation Fund, and the Bus Replacement Fund, thereby affecting the services provided by those funds. The indirect impact of the legislation affects the General Fund and the services it provides. The General Fund has been underfunded by the State’s funding formula for years, but FTCSC has been able to remain solvent and provide consistent services by using its Rainy Day Fund. The availability of using the Rainy Day Fund to supplement the General Fund is coming to an end because the property tax cap legislation has eliminated the possibility of us having any surplus funds in the future to transfer to the Rainy Day Fund.
Because we feel the citizens of Franklin Township, Marion County, Indiana, deserve, demand, and expect consistent and quality educational opportunities for its young people the Franklin Township Community School Corporation has decided to pursue a November 2009 referendum to offset the annual revenue shortfalls that will begin in 2010 resulting from the property tax caps that were enacted by the Indiana General Assembly. Without the revenue replacement that will be generated by a successful referendum the quality of the educational experience of the township’s students will diminish because class sizes will increase to intolerable levels, services will be severely limited or eliminated, and it will become difficult to properly maintain the facilities that have been constructed by the taxpayers. While being sensitive to the fact that a successful referendum will reduce the savings of property taxpayers, the Board of School Trustees of the Franklin Township Community School Corporation voted unanimously on February 23, 2009, to give the voters of Franklin Township the opportunity to express their desire to maintain the quality educational experience to which its residents have grown accustomed and expect.
WATCHDOG INDIANA POSITION. Voters should vote NO in the November referendum to increase 2010-16 homeowner property taxes by 17.4% above the 1% cap level to replace the revenue that FTCSC will lose to property tax caps. The actual 2011 FTCSC property tax caps revenue shortfall is likely to be much less than the estimated $3,482,377 because of a school levy replacement grant from the state. The $998,292 that FTCSC will likely lose to property tax caps in 2010 is only 0.9% of the total $107.24 million that FTCSC spent in 2007. FTCSC has unethically imposed higher than needed property tax rates for years to bolster its Rainy Day Fund for use in a failed attempt to bring its ratio of student instructional expenditures up to par.
The FTCSC School Board ignored the $1.5 million in federal stimulus funds that it will receive when it voted to approve the November referendum. The FTCSC School Board also ignored General Assembly legislation currently being considered (House Bill 1723) that would limit property tax cap revenue loss to 0.15%.
To protect themselves from runaway property tax increases, voters should NOT vote for a referendum property tax levy before the property tax caps become a permanent part of the Indiana Constitution. FTCSC should resort to joint purchasing, shared services, and other cost-saving opportunities to deal with their minimal property tax cap revenue loss before resorting to a property tax increase.
FTCSC FACTS. The most recent estimates show a revenue shortfall for 2010 resulting from the property tax caps in the amount of $3,314,224, of which the State of Indiana will provide replacement dollars in the amount of $2,315,932, leaving a net shortfall of $998,292. That shortfall represents 10.4 percent of the dollars spent in the Capital Projects Fund, the Transportation Fund, and the Bus Replacement Fund in 2007. The estimated net revenue shortfall in 2011 is $3,482,377, which represents 36.2% of the dollars spent in the three funds noted above in 2007. Those funds that are impacted are used to pay for computer technicians and bus drivers, to maintain and improve our facilities, to pay utility costs, to replace and repair equipment, and to replace buses. Reduced funding will require corresponding reductions to the operations and the services we provide.
While the 2008 General Fund deficit has yet to be determined because we have not yet received all of our 2008 property tax dollars, it is projected to be as much as $2,400,000. Such a deficit would require the elimination of the equivalent of forty-eight (48) teaching positions without Rainy Day Fund dollars to supplement the General Fund, or without additional dollars that would be provided by a successful referendum.
Some may choose to point out that the federal government is going to make stimulus funds available to public schools. It is reasonable to assume that FTCSC will receive some additional federal dollars due to the pending program; however, the amount is uncertain and the purposes for which it may be used has not yet been finalized. The temporary impact of any federal stimulus dollars does not rectify the permanent nature of the issues we face as a result of the property tax cap legislation.
Additional supporting information can be found in the FTCSC 2008 Financial Update available at http://www.ftcsc.k12.in.us/super/media.php.
WATCHDOG INDIANA FACTS. Watchdog Indiana is pleased that FTCSC has accepted as accurate the updated January 5, 2009, property tax cap revenue loss data from the state’s nonpartisan Legislative Services Agency (http://www.in.gov/legislative/pdf/CircuitBreake...). The 2010 FTCSC net property tax cap revenue shortfall of $998,292 is likely to be realized, but the actual 2011 revenue shortfall is likely to be much less than $3,482,377 ¬ the 2011 LSA projection is made without factoring in a school levy replacement grant from the state. Current state law provides school levy replacement grants for 2009 and 2010, and there will be considerable political pressure for such grants to continue after 2010.
According to the Indiana Department of Education (http://mustang.doe.state.in.us/TRENDS/fin.cfm), the total 2007 FTCSC grand total expenditures from all sources – local, state, and federal – was $107,248,984.14. The Indiana Office of Management and Budget (http://www.in.gov/omb/2007-08_Student_Instructi...) reports that the 2007-08 statewide ratio of student instructional expenditures to all other expenditures was 60.6%; the FTCSC ratio was only 56.6%.
The Indianapolis Star (February 14) estimates that FTCSC will receive $1.5 million in federal stimulus funds.
The constitutional property tax caps in Senate Joint Resolution 1 must pass the Indiana House before Hoosier voters can vote in 2010 to make the caps a permanent part of the Indiana Constitution. Without constitutional property tax caps, the other governing units within the FTCSC district can use the Distressed Unit Appeals Board to bypass the caps and raise property taxes. Also, if the property tax caps are not included in the Indiana Constitution, the legislative caps can be ruled unconstitutional and property taxes will quickly return their previous high levels.
BACKGROUND. The FTCSC Debt Service, Severance Debt Service, Capital Projects, Transportation, and Bus Replacement funds will be supported by property taxes in 2010. The two debt service funds must be fully supported, so any losses caused by the 1% property tax cap must be absorbed by the other three funds. Rainy Day Funds have been used by FTCSC for several years to maintain employment levels and remain solvent, but the 1% property tax cap will result in no available money to transfer to the Rainy Day Fund. Indiana Code 20-46-1 allows a school board to place a referendum on the ballot to replace property tax revenue that a school corporation will not receive because of property tax caps. A referendum property tax levy may be put into effect only if a majority of the individuals who vote in the referendum approves the property tax increase. A referendum property tax levy cannot be imposed for more than seven years, but the levy may be reimposed via another referendum. Based on FTCSC calculations, a resident with a gross assessed value of $150,000 paid $3,476.87 in property taxes in 2007. In 2010, that person would pay $1,761.35 if the referendum is approved. That is $261.35 above the 1% property tax cap.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:56 am
If the Wikipedia site is correct there are 79 IPS schools. Divide 1,300 employees making 80 grand and above and that add up to a bit over 16 people per school making above 80 grand. It kicks up to 24 employees per school at 70 grand and above. Hmmm seems a bit excessive to me.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:56 am
It still amazes me that we even HAVE 'school police' at all.
We should pack up every student who makes that police presence necessary and put them in the Knightstown 'children's' home and fence it in and operate it like a medium-security prison.
Then require at least 2 years of military service after they graduate, maybe more if their student performance was poor.
November 24th, 2009 at 10:02 am
That's some fine work Abdul. Thank you!
November 24th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Or one employee making $80,000 or above for every 26 students, (34,000 students per Wikipedia, minus all the students that drop out yearly) or one employee making $70,000 per every 17.7 students. Hmmm one employee making $60.000 per every 13.8 students. Last but not least one employee making $40,000 and above for every 6.1 student. I suspect the average new teacher makes under 40 grand a year.
November 24th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Abdul, why do you act surprised. Teachers have been trying to tell people for 5 years now that Eugene White has been adding his buddies to the payroll at outrageous salaries at a pace that is unequaled. It shows imagination on his part that he can even keep making up titles for the newly made up positions for his friends. In the meantime, teachers, students and parents suffer.
November 24th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Speaking of outrages EID# 22124 Basil Mawbety, Title – DEAN STDNT ACT/ATHL $85,161 total compensation +$109,000. Coaches Basketball at Broad Ripple H.S. Dr. White's personal hire. Time at IPS? About 4 months
November 24th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
It is obvious that you have not been in an IPS school for a while. We need more IPS police. The principals refuse to enforce the discipline policy and the schools are getting more violent and out of control.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
guy77money, one thing students are taught in research class is that Wikipedia is a very unreliable source for information. I don't doubt that there are way too many high paying administrators but please use a reliable source if you wish to quote stats. Wikipedia doesn't meet that standard.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Its Basil Mawbry, I think…and yes, it is an outrage. But it shouldn't be a surprise. Every school where Eugene has been, he personally serves as athletic director…in fact or de-facto.
Don't forget, his daughter was on the IPS payroll (teacher@John Marshall MS) when he arrived. And his son (Reggie) was supposed to be hired this year as a coach and teacher. For positions that didn't exist the year prior–so he made a job for his son. His wife is on the Washington Township payroll as a payroll processing person.
This is a Superintendent who lives out his testosterone dreams via expensive staff around him, and school athletics. If IPS didn't know what they were getting, they didn't pay attention to his track record.
He is fast approaching the time when he's outliving his usefulness. That usefulness is his unwavering enthusiasm for urban education. It's infectious and genuine.
I'm told by some reliable IPS teacher friends that he has a venomous attitude toward the instructional staff unless they march exactly to his orders exactly when he says.
In a district with so many teaching challenges, you'd think a Superintendent would do all in his power to rid the central office of expensive overseers, and push that money into the classroom as fast as possible. The extra layers are mind-boggling, wasteful and counter-productive.
Hey, we can wish, can't we?
November 24th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Yeah, Basil Mawbey
Dean of Unaccountability
November 24th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
But “guy” only used Wikipedia for the number of schools in IPS. The other information wasn't Wikipedia information. I'm willing to accept the 79 IPS schools as a fairly accurate number.
November 24th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Please, please. These attempts at “statisitcs” fail even the most basic tests for rigor.
Without more information there is little value in just doing simple math when trying to assign averages across the population of your data.
The Admin building employees, the system employees and the building administrators all skew the averages when simply dividing by the number of schools in the system.
If you really want to see the “bad” side of the salary structure, you would want to analyze them separately from the teachers.
I imagine that the most senior teachers with a basic Master's degree don't climb above the $60K – 70K threshold. A good question would be how many of those per building. Starting teaching salaries are likely in the $20K – 30K range.
Some teaching staff likely have a Master's degree plus extra credit hours, plus there are likely a very few teachers with a doctorate degree actually teaching. I wonder if any of them make over $80K, unless they have previously been administrators?
Building administrators are probably distributed two per elementary, four to eight at middle schools, and 10+ at high schools. There's some of the $90K+ salaries to account for.
What one is left with then would be the high number of Admin building and/or system administrator employees with excellent salaries. This is where I should think most of the criticism should fall. Why so many highly compensated workers downtown who don't seem to be adding commensurate value to the school system?
A least, that's my two cents on the subject.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Everyone wants world class results on farmhand salaries. Dr White isn't cheap. Imagine what cheap and no hope would equal to the children that get their education, like I did, from IPS.
The principals at IPS high schools have a lot do deal with, most of them products of parents that don't care, and expect the IPS to be cook, educator, baby-sitter, and instiller of civics and morals into their children for them. Crime and violence plague our schools, but thankfully not as much as other major urban school systems.
The armchair critics out there in this audience need to understand you get what you pay for. It's easy to pontificate when you don't understand the task at hand. Take a day off work and go to Broad Ripple or Manual. Ask to sit in class and monitor. Behave while you do so. Watch what students and administrators need to deal with on an everyday basis. Then come back here and spew your greed. I doubt it happens. You'll wonder how they do so much with so little and so few friends.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
You have missed the point. We are not getting what we paid for in most of these newly created high paying administrative jobs. They are buddies of Eugene. Compare what they do to what we do in the classroom on a day to day basis. No 2 hour lunches for teachers. No coming in a couple of hours late for teachers. When teachers are absent, they are charged sick days. Teachers do not get hair cuts, car washes, or their nails done while on the time clock…….
November 24th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Good grief. You work for ISTA? Or Eugene White?
.
Every single friend I know who is a teacher complains not about the kids, but about the administrators and how much they keep them from actually being able to teach.
.
Further they always complain that these administrators with their fat salaries literally do nothing pretty much all day.
.
The government extorts a bigger percentage of my pay for education every single year, yet I get lower results each year for my investment.
.
I really don't want to hear it because we used to get better results for less money.
.
I'd like to see the teachers unions dissolved and the people in charge personally be made to give the teachers back the money from the pension fund.
.
And then I'd like to see the teachers take charge of the schools and throw out every last greedy taxpayer tit sucking administrator!
November 24th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Why can a Marine Corps Drill Instructor 'motivate' their young charges, and in 3 months mold them into productive adults — and do it with far less resources, and for far less pay, than our vaunted school system.
November 24th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
I don't work for the ISTA. I put six kids through North Central and Wash Twp schools under Dr White's regime. He did fantastically. Your friends, the teachers, can tell you the good that the unions do. You'd be wise to listen to them.
The administrators are adequately paid. Go downtown. Watch what they do. Go into the job market and find that kind of experience and wisdom, and see just how much it costs.
Get your mind off the price. They're well paid, and if you ask me, inexpensive.
November 24th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
And just how do you know this? Do you go down, like I do, and talk to these people and watch them in action? No. Anecdotal tales used to justify specious arguments. Bah.
November 24th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
“It is obvious that you have not been in an IPS school for a while. We need more IPS police. The principals refuse to enforce the discipline policy and the schools are getting more violent and out of control.”
I was surprised that there were that many officers at IPS Police Department. However, it doesn't surprise me. I think they deal with a lot of stuff that is serious, but never makes the news media. I know the department isn't all that either, though the pay doesn't look horrible, but for the run load, you can get similar pay and benefits (likely) working for one of the universities in town. In fact, I know three former IPS officers that left and went to a university, they all say it is better than IPS by a long shot. My guess is that if IPS is that bad and needs cops that bad, the good cops are going to leave and go elsewhere. Why deal with a mid-40s wage and no take home car when you can go to IMPD and end up in the mid-50s, with a take home car, and work off-duty as well?
November 24th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Employers? Is the typical IPS grad (the 50% or so that do graduate), the kind of people you first want to fill your open jobs?
The TYPICAL IPS student doesn't dress well, doesn't speak well, doesn't read or write well, and usually possesses an attitude to match. In short, vast numbers of them are marginally literate. And did I mention they don't graduate with the most basic math skills such as knowing that 9×6=54.
(understandably there are rare exceptions)
If you are going to ask me for more money every year, then aresult of barely literate without lousy math skills is not good enough.
Obviously the democrats in charge of education don't know what they are doing, don't have the answers, or we would not get the miserable results we get year after year.
If we tripled the IPS budget, I predict we would get worse results because we reward (instead of punish) bad behavior.
And another thing…I think if you do not pay tax and cannot pass a basic civics exam, you don't get a vote. That would solve a lot.
November 24th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
If that happened, the children's home would BECOME IPS.
November 24th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
The reason many officers come to IPS in the first place is because IPS pays for their training at the police academy. I'm pretty sure many other law enforcement agencies require their recruits to incur this expense. They come in, get training and move on.
November 24th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Government run, union managed, adult day care is apparently not education. IPS is a soviet styled bureaucracy, plundering the resources of productive citizens to manufacture failure (~70% don't graduate).
“Professionals” don't make excuses (i.e. kids, parents), they perform. Government has no place in education, we have the failed results to prove it.
Compare IPS expenditures & results with those of parochial schools (!!!), where many of those pose-itions don't exist.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Good teachers and good principals are worth paying well. But the salary difference between teachers and administrators should not be too great; otherwise, the motivation to become an administrator is a desire to make more money, rather than a desire to serve schools. Most IPS administrators obstruct teachers and are autocratic and vindictive to boot. We don't need them. A few curriculum specialists who are good at supporting teachers should be retained, and an honest and smart business manager. That's all.
The only hope is probably to either (a) have a progressive, wise mayor take over IPS, fire all the central administration, and ask a small team of good people to restructure IPS with lots of teacher, student, and parent input; OR (b) dissolve IPS and assign its schools to the various townships.
November 25th, 2009 at 4:55 am
Real Hendy, I put three kids through NC, too. Under Dr. White's principalship or superintendency. Here's the real story:
Fantastic college prep courses. Among the best anywhere. Ask any college recruiter–NC does as good/better job than Carmel or Brebeuf or anyone for that specific purpose.
But:
If you are the parent of a kid who doesn't know about college. Or may need a vocational track. Or needs special care. Or, if, God forbid, you're a parent who asks questions (like the IPS school board DARED to do last night): Dr. White bullies you. Threatens to leave.
In the immortal words of Lou Henson, he's “the classic bully.”
The day that a superintendent publicly threatens school board members, because they're “micro-managing” (confirmed by no less an “authority” than Mary Freaking Busch), is the day he needs to be told:
“We love ya, Gene, but go. Now.”
Because in “White's World,” once he makes this public threat, you know several things:
1. He's made the threat privately, to any board member who “dares” to quiz him;
2. He wins the threat, and he gains more power. He has the “pout factor” down-pat.
3. His next act to question board authority will be much more brazen. Harken back to the day when, at WashTwp, he disagreed with the new governor about ed funding, and publicly called him a liar. He had to back down from that outrageous statement (about an NC grad, Daniels!)
Real Hendy, the struggle that's playing out now at IPS is classic admin-vs-board, and Gene White knows how to play that game like a champ. Whenever the board legitimately asks questions, scream “micro-management.” Some boards do micr0-manage. WashTwp's and IPS's didn't and don't. If anything, they're too hands-off.
All his accomplishments on the academic side at WashTwp, were not proper training for the job he has now, which is nearly impossible.
If you're an elected public board member, and dozens of citizens come to a meeting asking questions, it is entirely appropriate to give them air time, so long as they remain respectful. The next step he'll take, like he did in WashTwp:
Encourage the 4-3 majority to adopt “rules” which make it nearly impossible for the public to comment at a board meeting.
Real Hendy, I'll grant you, the man has accomplishments. It's the bully side that galls me. And it should be an affront to every taxpayer in the IPS system. Ask WashTwp how much of a fiscal mess he left there. His right-hand budget guy was fired for using board members' rubber stamps for signatures on his “new contract.” I didn't know this until I got a copy of the (public) lawsuit the fired budget director filed–and lost. All under Eugene's tenure and with his approval.
Paying admins enough money isn't the question. Having too many of them–that's the question. Eugene, and way too many modern-day admins (trained, coincidentally, by folks like Busch) want to be surrounded by execs. They don't know any better. Few of them “gets” a real budget.
The private sector can and will insist on more of their ilk being allowed to run schools. And with a little training, they can. The school admin establishment is bleeding us to death with more and more of the same kinds of superintendents. They're all the same.
Sadly. Because their job is so important.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:05 am
First, ONLY IPS parents and teachers should respond to IPS business. Second, anyone believing a teacher is overpaid needs to be a subsitute teacher for a week. You'll change your mind. I am a Vietnam vet and I wouldn't be a sub at any IPS school again for all the money in the world. For the most part students are rude and have no respect for anyone or anything. My wife is a teacher and some of her parents are worse than the students and the parents behavior shows on the terroristic children they bring into the world. Some parents need to be place in a locked classroom with their children until the parents learn to parent and the children learn they are not the rulers of the schools.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:09 am
Because a Marine Corps Drill Instructor can “discipline” your little angels and a teacher can't you twit.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:25 am
Teachers are clearly overpaid. $71,000 plus Cadillac benefits for 182 days of work is absurd. Pay and benefits – especially retirement – need to be cut back drastically. Note in the spreadsheet that the teachers' “hourly” rate is calculated based on 1820 hours a year – that's IPS trying to pretend that teachers work 10 hours a day times 182 days. Teachers don't work any more than other professions.
sgmdad4418 – Two problems with your comment that “anyone believing a teacher is overpaid needs to be a substitute teacher for a week.” First, subs only make about $100 a day, or one-fourth what union teachers make. Second, kids know they can get away with anything where there's a sub. So your comment is not helpful.
IPS has failed year after year, decade after decade, to provide a safe environment in which kids can learn. It's been a violent, gang-dominated hell hole – esp at the middle and high school levels – at least since I was there in the early 70's. Generation after generation of predominately minority kids are burdened with this expensive, ineffective system…it's time to give these kids a chance, and close IPS. Close it down, voucher the kids out. At least start with the high schools.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:34 am
IPS has failed, and the reasons cited here are part of the problem. But an expensive and top-heavy central office don't help.
But anyonoe who thinks teachers are overpaid needs a reality check. Their 182 contract days often do not include in-service and continuing ed that most good teachers do constsantly. Most good teachers work otuside the classroom 10 hrs. or more a week.
Starting teacher in IPS this year: with a bachelor's and no experience, I think it's $30560. Not poverty wages, but try doing the following on that:
**rent
**transportation
**paying back student loans
**start your master's
**oh yeah, food
We need to pay beginning teachers more, and offer to help repay their loans if they stay in public education for X years.
Long-tenured teachers skewer the salary schedule. We need the gray hairs in the classroom, too. But not every teacher makes $70K.
Would that it were so.
I think you have to work 10 years to get over $42,500. Again, not poverty wages, but not glamorous. And by the end of those ten, you'd better have a master's, or you're gone. There's another 20-30K in debt.
I have no problem with vouchers, if that's a reasonable solution…but not one dime of my taxpayer money to any religious school. Period. I take care of my kids' religion all by myself, thank you very much. It's one thing I do NOT want the govt. directing in any manner whatsoever.
That pesky Constitution.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:08 am
It is almost laughable that you base your perception on IPS on your experiences in the 1970's. This is 2009. As any IPS teacher would tell you, there are no Cadillac benefits for IPS teachers. We have a very mediocre medical insurance plan which teachers pay more and more each year. If you want to see Cadillac benefits. look at Eugene White.
November 25th, 2009 at 10:02 am
“It's one thing I do NOT want the govt. directing in any manner whatsoever.”
IPS, a government entity, already directs religion:
http://www.302.ips.k12.in.us/
How can an organization, which proselytizes the belief of no supreme being, be allowed to get taxpayer money to run a public school?
November 25th, 2009 at 10:31 am
IPS is clearly top heavy in administration costs, per the state we site their average teacher salary for 2008-2009 was $51,700. Per the statistics above there are 1288 postions at 80k or more, ballpark figure $103,000,000.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:19 am
If public sector “teaching” were opened to capable professionals, there would be downward pressure on the institutional expense of a masters degree; too often the ornament of indoctrination rather than continued education or mastery.
Proponents of opt in / out, should favor the idea, in these e-modern times, of taxpayer box checking; to opt in / out, their proportional voucher contribution, to secular or religious schools, as they see fit.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Nope. Dave. None of my tax money to a religious school. Ever. That will never happen…thankfully.
But I'm starting to agree with you on teachers/qualifications. Time-on-task alone should not equal a master's degree.
Outside professionals, properly degreed, could probably be in-serviced for classroom duties in 4-6 months.
Bring it on.
November 25th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Yes TA, exactly. Choices; some of us would opt in & others would opt out, on private or religious vs. institutional / secular.
Secular knuckle rapping, has driven customers from the soviet styled, IPS system; a globally overheated orthodoxy, of carnival “science,” social & otherwise…
Recent exposure of global warming carnies, demonstrates, exactly what you can expect from union run, “government education.”
November 25th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Americans have gotten used to the degree system because acknowledging a piece of paper is much easier than performing due diligence when hiring employees. And, waving little initials at others instead of developing thoughtful arguments or formulating workable practices seems to be de rigeur these days.
November 25th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
“$71,000 plus Cadillac benefits for 182 days of work is absurd.”
I'm wondering where the teachers are that are paid that much and how I missed that boat. As an IPS teacher, the salary schedule that I have maxes out at around $65,000 for a 25-year veteran with a Ph.D. This means that you can factor teachers out of those high salary ranges altogether. I'm also not sure where the figure of 10 hours a day is coming from. I have been under the impression for years that our hourly wages are based on 7 hours a day (even though I work over 12 most days). As a younger teacher, I feel that my salary is adequate. However, how many people with a Ph.D. would work as hard as an IPS teacher for only $65,000?
November 25th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
I see where the Super threatens to resign. Would anyone notice? Has this person improved student academic achievement? Did he in his last gig? I rather expect NOT. When he shot his mouth off about Mitch, early on, he showed his true colors, and, that he was a lightweight.
November 25th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
What world are you in? Ever watch the News? people doing most crime are students or former students who couldn't cut it. At one time I worked with these people. School Cops do a pretty good job that most can't do. Lots coach, run clubs and support the students. You don't hear about IPS cops doing wrong. They deal with as much as IMPD for alot less pay and benefits! (Not allowed to work off duty) Why? If you can trust them to work with children why can they not supplement their income working off duty like other police? Since overtime was cut from the officers this would only be right. Most people don't know that there are less officers in the schools on a daily basis because school officers have had to adjust their schedules to cover all other events at schools (Ball games etc.) that used to be overtime. Less officers to protect your children during school hours. Shrink the top of their department. Chief of Police 92,000 drop him one person runs department. You never saw him anyway usually the man lieutenant did it all. He made these changes he's not worried about the safety of schools. Last most IPS cops are 12 month employees where other employees are 10 month. I remember when Dr. White said if you keep employees happy they will be good employees those days are gone.
November 25th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
What world are you in? Ever watch the News? people doing most crime are students or former students who couldn't cut it. At one time I worked with these people. School Cops do a pretty good job that most can't do. Lots coach, run clubs and support the students. You don't hear about IPS cops doing wrong. They deal with as much as IMPD for alot less pay and benefits! (Not allowed to work off duty) Why? If you can trust them to work with children why can they not supplement their income working off duty like other police? Since overtime was cut from the officers this would only be right. Most people don't know that there are less officers in the schools on a daily basis because school officers have had to adjust their schedules to cover all other events at schools (Ball games etc.) that used to be overtime. Less officers to protect your children during school hours. Shrink the top of their department. Chief of Police 92,000 drop him one person runs department. You never saw him anyway usually the man lieutenant did it all. He made these changes he's not worried about the safety of schools. Last most IPS cops are 12 month employees where other employees are 10 month. I remember when Dr. White said if you keep employees happy they will be good employees those days are gone
November 25th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Add to the cost of this salary & benefit schedule, that for which citizens pay but a majority do not have; retirement benefits.
Save for those on that list, very few people will give thanks for “government education” or citizens dehumanized as ATM's.
November 25th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Just think, over 1200 people make more the any teacher. So teachers are not within the top 1200 people being paid in IPS. However, every time they need to save money they cut the teachers.
What is that about. The top ten paid people can add over 20 teachers.
November 25th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Please,
The downtown people can not even get the teachers pay checks correct.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
To many of the above posts, IPS does have some sort of a program where professionals from certain fields can get teaching credentials paid by IPS as long as they dedicate…two years after they're done. I know a few people in the program, and one of them referred to it as a “fellowship”, but the program's name escapes me at the moment.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
In 1816, our legislature talked about education, but didn't fund it. Then, in 1851, this was ratified:
“Knowledge and learning, generally diffused throughout a community, being essential to the preservation of a free government; it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to encourage, by all suitable means, moral, intellectual, scientific, and agricultural improvement; and to provide, by law, for a general and uniform system of Common Schools, wherein tuition shall be without charge, and equally open to all.” — Art 8 Sec 1.
Who'd a thunk that this single sentence. “…and to provide, by law, for a general and uniform system of Common Schools, wherein tuition shall be without charge, and equally open to all.”, would have become the the largest expense in our budget.
Unlike the authors of the 1816 Constitution, the authors of the 1851 Constitution actually funded education, as explicitly enumerated in Article 8 Section 2:
“The Common School fund shall consist of the Congressional Township fund, and the lands belonging thereto;
The Surplus Revenue fund;
The Saline fund and the lands belonging thereto;
The Bank Tax fund, and the fund arising from the one hundred and fourteenth section of the charter of the State Bank of Indiana;
The fund to be derived from the sale of County Seminaries, and the moneys and property heretofore held for such Seminaries; from the fines assessed for breaches of the penal laws of the State; and from all forfeitures which may accrue;
All lands and other estate which shall escheat to the State, for want of heirs or kindred entitled to the inheritance;
All lands that have been, or may hereafter be, granted to the State, where no special purpose is expressed in the grant, and the proceeds of the sales thereof; including the proceeds of the sales of the Swamp Lands, granted to the State of Indiana by the act of Congress of the twenty eighth of September, eighteen hundred and fifty, after deducting the expense of selecting and draining the same;
Taxes on the property of corporations, that may be assessed by the General Assembly for common school purposes.”
So, the Common School Fund (aka Public School Fund) SHALL CONSIST OF…
What part of SHALL CONSIST OF is difficult to understand? Abdul certainly has problems with it, though I can't understand why…the language is pretty clear, and was written to be understood by the common man of 1851.
I see that government can levy property taxes against corporations as a funding method.
Can't seem to find anyplace where government can tax my private home for the support of public schools.
What about “That pesky Constitution”, Think Again ?????
November 25th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Look at the salary schedule before you post: starting salary at IPS is ~$34,000/year with a BA– more than I made teaching university with a PhD last year.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Well paid, sure. But when was the last time Dr. White's paycheck wasn't received on time? Not to long ago, there were teachers who hadn't been paid for a number of weeks, and it took them going down to the admin building to get it under control.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Yeah, that's the buck-up, all testosterone– all the time attitude.
There's nothing like a soviet bureaucracy there. Look to the parents of these kids for the problems, and the fact that most of the educated caucasians in IPS moved out to the suburbs. IPS is made up of a strongly disadvantaged ethnic and socio-economically deprived segment of Central Indiana. It gets robbed of taxes, it gets robbed of the niceties of Carmel, Fishers, and even the outlying township schools. The parochial schools have good results, and parents who care…. contrast that with single parents that work two and three jobs and aren't able to give children what they need– supervision and boredom prevention.
Aspirations can be really low when your job future is Village Pantry.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
FYI: All, are ethnic. Go to your local, buggy whipped, earth covering of anachronism, aka the central library, & read more about it. Push the blame (“disadvantaged ethnic and socio-economically deprived”) &, endorse the shame. Nice-uh-tea is more an excuse or a warm drink.
Forget bio-fuels, like testosterone or ethanol, ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:46 am
Our Indiana Constitution mandates that we have ONE elected State Superintendent.
“There shall be a State Superintendent of Public Instruction, whose method of selection, tenure, duties and compensation shall be prescribed by law.” — Article 8 Section 8
We could hire nearly 20 teachers at $45K for the combined salaries of the Superintendents (aka Deadwood) listed above. If we cannot trust the school Principals to run their schools effectively and efficiently, then fire them, and hire competent people.
We are REQUIRED to have ONE Superintendent — jettison the rest.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:52 am
Oh, and for Abdul….
You asked me once on-air if Article 8 Section 2 was the only method of school funding authorized. I said yes.
You see, government was NOT given carte blanche on school funding in our 1851 Constitution. Funding was very expressly enumerated in Section 2.
Notice the difference between 8-2 and 8-8. The General ASSembly was given a lot of leeway in the selection, tenure, duties and compensation of the State Superintendent of Public Instruction.
Not so with funding our public schools.
I don't believe that the authors of Article 8, nor the electorate, would have believed that such simple language would birth the monolith of public education that we have today.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:33 am
You do know that your tax money already goes to religious schools all the time. Just not k-12. Subsidized daycare and preschool programs do not differentiate between secular or religious programs. Similarly, government grants and tax deductions for college are applicable to both secular and religious institutions. The religion taboo for k-12 has nothing to do with the constitution or separation of church and state. It's just a political excuse for keeping a government monopoly on k-12 education. I believe your prediction is wrong. I believe as charter schools break up the monopoly (and the teachers unions), the silly secular-only obsession will disappear and vouchers (good at all accredited schools, public and private) will completely replace the current system of districts and boundaries.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:56 am
There is no credible evidence that possession of a master's degree in education affects student academic achievement. Rather, it is just an expense/tax on educators and a means of lying to the public so that said hoop jumpers can extract more money from the public for a worthless piece of paper. Indy has done some good work on the Constitution. What we have in excess of it is all upon the Legislature(our 150 person school board). It is interesting to read the 1851 debates because nearly all of the players then are still around today with about the same arguments. But, the topic of the thread looms and the critics of all these expenses must not have any faith in the wisdom of the school board, locally. You are reviewing their works and the works of the 150 who provide the funds for the mess.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:36 am
By that standard, the people who pay the most in income taxes (97% paid by the top 50% of wage earners) should respond or comment on tax policy. ;-)
November 26th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
This is a bit interesting and as an IPS empoyee I would always argue there are too many positions created in the main office, the most obvious being principals who were removed from their assignments and placed downtown.
Yet in all fairness to taxpayers, I have to say this is raw data. How does this compare to other districts of comparable size? This comparison would be a first step to fiscal responsibility. In the business of education, finance is not a required subject. We're looking at people who have moved up in the ranks as educators, not financial experts. Districts scuffling to achieve some sense of student achievement don't have the resources for budgetary analysis.
I think it would be wonderful to see IPS (and most urban districts that are encumbered by politics, old boy networks and union obligations) to hire a CFO just for 2 years to trim the fat. Yep, that would be Eugene would need to go.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
John Kass writes the best columns in the USA (from Chicago). Quoting part of it, “What Proft is right about is that public education in urban areas is a crime. Low-income minority students are treated as livestock, to fatten those who manage the political public education bureaucracy.
And middle-class families are finding it increasingly difficult to get their kids into public universities without clout and a second mortgage.
In Chicago, Proft said, only half of all public school students will graduate. “Only six out of every 100 freshmen in the Chicago public schools today will get a bachelor's degree. It's not just unacceptable, it's child abuse.”
Liberals, conservatives and moderates would agree.
“If you want to change any system, you change how the money flows, and you change who gets to make spending decisions,” Proft said.
Under his plan every child in Illinois who qualifies for federal school lunch programs would qualify for a voucher, to be used toward education at any school in the state, public, private, parochial or charter.
“We're not living up to our moral and fiduciary duty to these children,” Proft said, although he could have been talking about taxpayers as well.”
November 28th, 2009 at 9:47 am
A “lucky few” of the ~30% who graduate from a soviet styled bureaucracy like IPS, are herded into a mind control maize of “re-education” or indoctrination (domestication of intellect), promoted within the university system.
Parents will want to prepare their college bound kids for this stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EbQfmVoOfM&feature=pla...
November 28th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
IPS educator, whether this data is raw or fully-cooked, there are too many admins making too much money. Period.
And whenever someone in education tells you to compare expenditures to another school district, generally speaking, watch your wallet. They ALL spend too much in the central office. Duh. How about comparing spending, to something else? Like common sense?
Dave–I read your posts with great interest. I am trying to imagine what it must be like to run around inside that mind of yours. You're kinda dark–has anyone ever told you that?
November 28th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
They all spend too much in the central office and EVERYWHERE ELSE. I suppose, TA, that you know that Collective Farms are still extant in Russia and, in fact, control the agricultural sector. Government schools in America are similar islands of applied socialism (which even the brain dead liberals now know don't work). Those who have read Murray's Book, the one Mitch recommended to the Roundtable, would agree with your idea about comparing expenditures and raise you to defining standards for schools based in reality, that is, what performance can be expected, reasonably, with reasonable expenditures. By that standard, nearly all teachers are overpaid except those precious few whose compensations can never equal their contributions.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Dark is my preferred setting on the toaster, does that help?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:08 am
Precious few, huh, pascal?
How sad it must be to view the world through your glasses all the time. So now we're comparing IPS to Soviet work farms?
There are some teachers who need to find other work–now. But the overwhelming majority work too hard for their money. Especially in IPS. Your piling on doesn't change the facts.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:39 am
T'was a local school board member who first to my ear, aptly described the public school system as a “soviet style bureaucracy.”
Truly & unfortunately, that description fits most public school systems; bureaucracies which are top down organized, managed by coercion & therefore corrupt, severely impaired / limited circulation in the development of individual intellect & spirit.
Like our Constitutional Rights (a most articulate enumeration of human rights), education is individual, not collective; lest the pursuit of knowledge be turned into a snipe hunt.
Response of the sovereign to the acts of despots (collectivists, socialists, marxists, public sector power trippers, the self appointed presumptive who claim unnatural control over the lives of sovereign others while exempting themselves from any such constraint), illuminates consideration of those sovereignty deniers & their hidden intent; which is unfortunately DARK. If the “control others” agenda wasn't “dark” or inviable under the scrutiny of illumination, there would be no need to hide it, right?
Those seeking confirmation of the problem should view the following video. For parents of the college bound, this is a must see:
http://www.youtube.com/watchv=6EbQfmVoOfM&feature=play...
November 29th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
No economist would have any trouble seeing the resembalance between government schools as islands of socialistic practice and soviet collective farms, if not exact identity. We all know that the Soviets used to export grain prior to adopting the socialist system. Then then needed to import grain to feed their people. The measured outputs of government schools here are considerably less than the inputs, also. As to the glasses business, there are none so blind as those who will not see. We have import foreign talent to our graduate schools, except those in “education”, math, science, biology, engineering, would be as empty as those high school classrooms in IPS designed to hold the numbers of entering freshmen.
And, TA, you still haven't publically or privately retracted your LIE about Palin ethic charges-what is taking you so long?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Sorry about the fouled link in my last post. Here's the one for “those seeking confirmation of the problem” & should view the following video. For parents of the college bound, this is a must see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EbQfmVoOfM&feature=pla...
November 29th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Pay attention folks, especially you parents. There's also Emily Brooker's story of a social worker, one of faculty threats & coercion, as confirmed by folks from the Univ. of Missouri & IU:
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=avEeswjaqaQ&feature=channel
November 29th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Darn those links, that last one should read: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avEeswjaqaQ&feature=cha...
November 30th, 2009 at 11:06 am
I'm coming to this party very, very late, but very glad it's taking place. Thanks for the work on this one, Abdul. I dearly hope you'll undertake something similar for Washington Township. If three of these got done, Land 'O Goshen, we could even have somewhat of a comparison.
.
This and Welsh's work on Wishard are exhibits A & B for proving if you want both sides of a story, you usually need to look beyond the Indianapolis Star to find it. Thanks again
November 30th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Just one comment about teachers not spending more time on work than other professions. I don't know many of my friends who spend 10-12 hours daily at their job, then bring home work not completed at their place of employment, and then going to their school to work 6-8 hours on Saturday. (Sometimes even going in on Sunday to complete things that couldn't be done on Saturday!)
December 16th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Perhaps you should ask Dr. White about his response to Commissioner Bentley’s question last night. (Board meeting, section 9, Personnel) The hiring of the new CITO. (elementary principal/bright) He stated, “there were no qualified african american candidates”. He needs to publicly apologize! How many administrators did he totally disrespect district wide, and nation wide. AND should the community react…of course!
Remember he just hosted NABSE.
December 18th, 2009 at 6:41 am
correction – no qualified people of color
December 27th, 2009 at 4:08 am
1. There's a movement to radically change California government, by getting rid of career politicians and chopping their salaries in half. A group known as Citizens for California Reform wants to make the California legislature a part time time job, just like it was until 1966.
January 7th, 2010 at 9:00 am
They can do this in 3 months because they can use methods that the teachers or the parents of the children are prohibited from using. Put those methods in the schools so that the teachers have backing and the students have consequence. Hold the children and parents as accountable for their educations as you do the teachers and see the difference.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
They can do this in 3 months because they can use methods that the teachers or the parents of the children are prohibited from using. Put those methods in the schools so that the teachers have backing and the students have consequence. Hold the children and parents as accountable for their educations as you do the teachers and see the difference.
January 20th, 2010 at 8:15 am
i do agree with you on the need for school police presence in the schools. I also agree with you on the man lieutenant doing it all
March 3rd, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Re: IPS Budget;Where's Mayor Ballard on this? Thought we had a Unilateral Mayor?
All I ever hear about is, his Vagabonding around Town bolstering the Police and Golly Gee we need more Walking Zones.Farmers dont give a crap about walking thru Parks unless theres Fishing.