Wrong Abdul. If Ogden runs for Mayor he will get help from THIS Libertarian, just like I helped Ballard. However, unlike Ballard, I am quite positive that Ogden will not betray us.

So Spangle speaks for all Libertarians. How convenient. Heavy are the shoulders on whom the king's robe rests.

Sorry, Melyssa, but almost any time I see the words “Libertarian” associated with a serious election challenge, I snicker. Regardless who the candidate is.

As for Danny boy, he's taken seriously by about six people worldwide. And Backyard Pumpkin Shooters anywhere. A complete national joke.

And as for the prosecutor's job–I wouldn't have it. At any salary. It's no-win: the jails and prisons are full, the judges are crazy, and the public demands blood on every single case. It seems no one is realistic when it comes to criminal justice, and after a couple decades of that prevalent attitude, we're all paying a huge price. Sadly. Briziz, for instance, shows up for the cameras, and ignores blatant illegal gambling right under his nose in Center Township for years.

And somehow, it's justified as “socially unacceptable” to prosecute illegal gambling because of its participants? See what I mean? The prosecutor can't win.

Oh Jeebus! Does this mean the CIB will be building a soccer stadium now?

Maybe Mary Hulman George will sell off the Hulman interest in IMS to someone who'll have the infield razed and filled in to make a giant soccer field?

That's sounds completely irrational and far-fetched but so does “Let's build a $70M basketball arena and give nearly every penny it takes in to the Simon brothers. After that we can build a $650M stadium and give nearly every penny it takes in to Jim Irsay.”

TA…Chris Spangle is one of the most principled people I have ever known. He's also brilliant. And at his young age performing at this level, I can't imagine what he'll do when he is 40.

As exec director, his job is to be solidly behind the Libertarian candidates. One thing I like about Chris is that he never gives me grief for being a bit “rogue”.

Regarding the Libertarian Party, don't be so quick to shrug us off. We continue to grow by leaps and bounds.

You would love our socials and I would love to take you sometime as my guest. Let me know if you would want to go. I'll even buy you a beer.

And TA, don't forget the 2007 election upset. With the mood as it is in the country, and a couple years til the city council/mayoral election, don't write off anyone or any outcome. Our seedlings will eventually become trees. :)

When I find some extra time, Melyssa, I'd love to go. Could be quite entertaining. I'm a cheap wine guy, not beer. Cheap, as in: if it has a cork, it's only for special occasions.

But I'm a numbers guy. When the Libs get to 10% of the vote, I'll pay attention. At the current rate of expansion, that'll be long after my grandkids are dead.

If you're a Lib, more power to you. But any party's executive director–i.e., hired gun–who unilaterally makes those kinds of decisions, is not someone I'd want representing me. Who elected him to anything? At least Treacy and Johns were elected by precinct committeepersons, who were, theoretically elected by voters. Or appointed as stiffs.

That said, I enjoyed listening to Chris when he was on Abdul's show. And he seems to be a smart fella.

It is shocking to hear the city is just now thinking of following up on a inquiry to host the World Cup…….. FOUR months after Lucas Oil Stadium was named as a possible site for the World Cup.

Thank god the Indiana Sports Corp and ICVA are run independently from the city.

4/10/2009
Indiana Stadiums Named Potential World Cup Soccer Sites
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.a...

6/17/2009
Indiana Still Considered Potential World Cup Site
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.a...

Actually, TA…I'll buy you a cheap glass of wine. White Zin? LOL!

Email me (or give me your email again) and I'll make sure you are on the invite list and we'll go together. We love guests from other parties.

Anyway, I challenge you to find a single Libertarian in Indiana that is not happy about Chris Spangle in this job. While I cannot possibly speak for everyone, I have never heard anyone say the slightest thing contrary to love and support for him as our director. Seriously, The Spangle is that good.

It's no wonder Abdul calls him “Spanglicious”

Cool, Abdul mentioned my name on his blog. I am somebody now.

World Cup. Meh.

There aren't enough seats for a qualifier in the stadium. Oh wait! The usual suspects are probably salivating heavily…must…build…bigger…stadium…more taxes…more slavish salaries.

Abdul,
I have heard nothing of Beth White running for Prosecutor. Nothing. There are already four candidates in the field, and Linda Pence still looming over. I would think ET would recruit Linda first. Beth White has done a nice job as Clerk since the early problems with her first election.

The four candidates for Prosecutor that have been making the rounds and are drumming up support are Terry Curry, Greg Bowes, David O., and Lowell “Butch” Shroyer. Of those, Terry Curry has prosecutorial experience as a former deputy prosecutor, and Butch has extensive courtroom experience and is a retired police detective. David O. has the Ivy League degree and spent a lot of time as a legislator on law enforcement issues and child abuse legislation. Greg Bowes also is an attorney with courtroom experience.

An opposing political party won't automatically give support to a candidate who hasn't yet declared candidacy, much less won a primary? This is surprising in what way?

Besides- when has the Republican Party ever crossed over to back a candidate from a different party with shared views? For that matter, it didn't back libertarians on its' own ticket, such as Andy Horning. So, some kind of double standard to even suspect that L's would do so, unless there was some fine horse trading going on.

Lucas Oil Stadium has a capacity of 64,200. FIFA’s current criteria requires a candidate host nation to provide a minimum of 12 stadiums and a maximum of 18 capable of seating 40,000 or more spectators

So it's 'silly' to require a candidate running for Prez to prove his/her natural born citizen status? Or is it just silly that some think Barry should prove his?

For more about this birther silliness: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citiz...

Actually, I very much like Chris Spangle and respect him for his views. He's doing his job as state executive director of the Libertarian Party and from what I hear, does it very well.

We need to learn to reach beyond party labels and work together on issues. I applaud the Libertarians for taking on issues that the GOP and Democrat party establishments won't touch. There is a populist angst in both the Democrat and Republican party that is ignored by the two parties' establishment. But Libertarians are taking on those issues.

Chris and I have debated about the correct route to go. Chris' position is that the party establishments have a stranglehold on the parties that can never be realistically challenged. There's some pretty good history backing him up.

I think the way to pursue reform is through the two party system, not just Republican, but also Demcocrat. My position is that the two party system is so ingrained in our culture that there is no way for a third party, like the Libertarians, to be successful at least this point in history. There is some pretty good history backing me up.

Right now does it matter if Republicans or Democrats control Indianapolis' city government? Basically we're getting the same corporate welfare regardless. The party establishment of both parties is thumbing their nose at the people they purport to represent. I think holding those folks accountable and make them listen to “the people” is the route to go.

It's a legitimate dispute. I don't at all begrudge Chris for taking a position different from mine.

There is no law that says that the “two party” system is comprised only of Republicans and Democrats. Republicans should know that better than anyone else.

When the Whigs were toast, a new organization else rose up to seize the ring. Today, if the Republicans are headed towards “toast-hood”, then it might be the Libertarians who rise up to seize the ring.

It may be admirable to “reach beyond party labels,” but in the current political climate, the Libertarians are, at best, an asterisk.

I like some of their stated ideals, but if anyone thinks the GOP is going to go extinct, and that the Libs could somehow inherit their mantle–well, you're just not paying attention.

As much as I revel in the Democrats' current national ascendency, I have watched long enough to know, that this tide will turn, too. It always does. Typically, when it does, after a long or particularly eventful Democratic rule, the Republicans give us an idealogue. As in Reagan. Who was basically Goldwater lite.

I am sure the Repubs will regroup, and belch forth someone who will win a national election in a few years. I don't know who it will be, but I'll bet everything I own it won't be Sarah Palin.

For which, we'll all be better off. There is ample talent toiling in the vineyards of GOPdom. Someone will emerge.

I can't believe that I'm in total agreement with TA on this.

Dream on.

No law, but a history that now runs about 150 years long. It's tough overcoming that history. It's a chicken and egg thing. Libertarians can't get support because people think they can't win. They can't win because they can't get support. It's not fair, but politics is not fair.

I don't think the Republicans being down today is any different than when the D's were down a few years ago. Both are/will come back.

TA, darlin'. Sounds like you are in a political rut. Do what you've always done and you'll get what you always got.

Rut? Perhaps. Just pragmatic as hell. I didn't say I liked it.

TA? maybe I can loosen up your gears with some white zinfandel and get you out of your rut! And yeah…you are pragmatic which is definitely a strength. But have you ever noticed are greatest strengths always have a corresponding weakness?

So you have:

Bowes-a former deputy prosecutor whose track record was pretty lackluster.
David O-a raging liberal who has never tried a case, let alone prosecuted.
Shroyer-a milquetoast defense attorney who is considered a pushover by prosecutors with balls
Curry-the best of a meager lot.

I can see why Treacy would go after Beth White, especially if he thought Pence was unavailable

Yeah…I'm a sucker for Libertarian tax arguments.

It happens.

I am wiping tears of laughter from my eyes. World Cup. HAHAHAHAHA. This is one of the funniest website I on the net. Keep up the good work.

Here's a party that's an asterisk- the Progressive Party. They never really elected too many to office. I can think of LaFollette of Wisconsin, and little else. But darned if they didn't have a bigger influence on public policy then the petty scorecard of ballot results. Minimum wage law? That was theirs. 40-hour work week? Also theirs. Most of today's labor law is essentially their platforms of yore. So, there's more than one way to be effective as a third party within the confines of the alleged 2-party system. And, so long as the Libertarian party takes up populist positions the Ds & Rs won't touch, which just happens to be exactly the formula the Progressives took, they can have the same effect. Not a guarantee so long as the majority of Americans believe in the power of government first, but a possibility.

gp38…Fascinating point you make about the influence of the Progressive Party and the inroads they've made while be an asterisk of a political party.

However, Libertarians don't take up populist positions because they are popular. That's not what it is about. Libertarians are philosophically principled in Constitution, The Rule of Law, and personal Liberty coupled with individual responsibility.

The majority of Americans do not believe in the power of government. The majority of Americans want Liberty.

Liberty is popular.

No one “owns” the Constitutional loyalty, Melyssa. And GP, your post is interesting, but part fantasy. You might want to check history regarding the minimum wage.

“I saw it on the internets so it must be true.” George W. Bush

So simple. Obama just needs to order a brith certificate, Show it to Congress and to the public. Or is there a real problem. It only takes a few days to get one in the mail.

Ask and ye shall receive! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BarackObamaCe...

And yet more! http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in...

TA…you are right. The Constitution is the gift our founders gave to all of us. It's just the Republicans and Democrats don't give a damn about it anymore, as evidenced time and time again by their actions. And the two parties are not holding the politicians within their parties to obey the constitution.

I wrote about a 23 year old kid who read part of the Indiana constitution at the CIB bailout hearing the other night and the reaction of the councilors and suits. The post was put up last night on the HFFT blog. Please go read it. The kid is extraordinary.

No one “owns” the Constitutional loyalty, Melyssa. And GP, your post is interesting, but part fantasy. You might want to check history regarding the minimum wage.

“I saw it on the internets so it must be true.” George W. Bush

So simple. Obama just needs to order a brith certificate, Show it to Congress and to the public. Or is there a real problem. It only takes a few days to get one in the mail.

Ask and ye shall receive! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BarackObamaCe...

And yet more! http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in...

TA…you are right. The Constitution is the gift our founders gave to all of us. It's just the Republicans and Democrats don't give a damn about it anymore, as evidenced time and time again by their actions. And the two parties are not holding the politicians within their parties to obey the constitution.

I wrote about a 23 year old kid who read part of the Indiana constitution at the CIB bailout hearing the other night and the reaction of the councilors and suits. The post was put up last night on the HFFT blog. Please go read it. The kid is extraordinary.