Question of the Day
I am feeling a bit philosophical today so I have to ask with all the recent financial news, “Has capitalism failed or did we fail capitalism?” I point to several financial stories in the news today.
- Goldman Sachs Executives sold $700 million following the collapse of Lehman Brothers with most of the sales coming at the time when Sachs benefited from billions in government relief.
- Attorney Marc Drier got 20 years for stealing $700 million from clients.
- Financial giant C.I.T. is on the verge of collapse if it doesn’t get assistance from the federal government.
Of course all this comes of the heels of A.I.G., G.M., Chrysler, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Bernie Madoff.
So what do you think?
July 14th, 2009 at 6:35 am
You could do worse than read the Pope's latest. There are other systems than capitalism that are, perhaps, better for the majority. Economics attempted to divorce itself from morality even though Adam Smith's better book was his theory of moral sentiments. Economics is a practical science and thus, under the old dispensations, would not escape moral strictures. What you are complaining about is an absence of morality by those who practice capitalism. Maybe it is only the lack of moral hazard? Senator Lugar once led the pack to bail out Chrysler. It was a mistake. The failures of businesses are quite necessary in the scheme of capitalism-creative destruction one wag called it. Government enterprises never fail, witness government schools. That's a mistake, too, and you may have noticed the absence of morality in them and those who lead them.
July 14th, 2009 at 7:01 am
I believe the government is cheating capitalism and keeping alive companies that should have failed a long time ago. Life is full of ups and downs, and when something is on a downturn it should be a time to take a step back and figure out a better way towards the future, and not throw a bunch of energy trying to turn it around.
July 14th, 2009 at 7:08 am
Capitalism didn't fail – it was orchestrated into collapse via de-regulation and manipulation in order to make it easier to convince the American people that we should be part of an interdependent world economy rather than a sovereign US economy. Give me a semester or two and I'll map out who, how, when, and why, with enough detail to actually place people behind bars for treason – if we had leaders who actually gave a damn.
Just last week Obama publicly stated that any nation who attempts to have a higher standard than others is doomed to failure. A few years ago President Bush promised to work towards a single global economy.
So capitalism hasn't failed. It's been derailed by private interests who manipulate our government. The biggest failure has been our media who refuses to inform the American people with facts that detail what is really happening.
July 14th, 2009 at 7:11 am
The failure isn't economic, it's behavioral. And, contrary to current belief, it isn't just the Boomers. Behavioral history has a very short collective memory. This has always been prevalent where personal indulgence has been possible. It has just become rampant with the expansion of the leisured classes.
I think we are just witnessing a peak in narcissistic excesses. Madoffs, Sanfords, et al, are just the tip of the iceberg. And, I'm sure that there are plenty of local examples one could name, but they just tend to be more of the Mickey Mouse variety in the grand scheme of things.
July 14th, 2009 at 8:18 am
I think greed and 8 years of Bush/Cheney and their friends plundering the federal budget has put us in a difficult position. Time will tell if Obama can repair the damage.
July 14th, 2009 at 8:58 am
GHANDI'S DEADLY SINS:
Wealth without work
.
Pleasure without conscience
.
Knowledge without character
.
Politics without principle
.
Commerce without morality
.
Worship without sacrifice
.
Do you think for a minute that those banksters practice their commerce with any shred of morality whatsoever?
July 14th, 2009 at 10:03 am
I am very afraid for my country,and I sure dont think Mr Obama is going to help,I think the govt. needs to let buisness fail if its gonna fail,no more bail outs, no more buyouts.
Good luck comrads
July 14th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Shore, I detest everything George Bush and Dick Cheney stood for. I think they're unindicted war criminals whose actions too-often depleted our civil rights in the name of their personal stilted agendas. And their economic policies didn't work from the git-go, except for the very wealthy among us.
But never, ever did I hear either of those men speak about a “single global economy” as a desired end result. Please indicate when and where, specifically, either or both professed such.
You can't wander into a blog, drop word bombs like that, and waltz out. Back it up. Otherwise it's idle chatter. Worthless.
Melyssa, what a thoughtful post. And so true.
The AIG/Goldman/Chryslter stuff is all greed. I can say this for Obama's “fix,” even tho many of you detest it: he insisted the GM chairman go, and an outsider was installed. Normally, I wouldn't like such an intervention, but if it had to happen, a completely new culture needed to invade the GM corporate suite.
Time will tell is if worked. The original Chryslter bailout lasted 30 years or so. That's not forever, but in this global econbomy, there are fewer gaurantees than ever. Except that cheap labor drives prices down, and ultimately, if we don't compete in that treacherous marketplace, we lose. Big time.
I have no answer, just these observations. If I had good answers, I'd be president, and Shore and Ernie would have a stroke. Relax, it'll never happen. LOL
July 14th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
melyssa wins
July 14th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
The pretty lady usually does win. Fact of life.
July 14th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
By great good fortune, First Things, the magazine, arrived in the mail and there is an article in it that squarely addresses this issue. Needless to say, what we have here is a failure of government. But, we don't have to think in a vacuum. Governments generally have great numbers of failures which rich countries can indulge themselves in for much longer than poor ones. Indiana,for instance, has government schools, sorta, meaning, they are sorta like schools. “If this is the end to public education as we know it, I say thank goodness. We need to end it as we know it and move on”-Gov Daniels (according to Howey). I don't know if Covey is a quack or not but his idea, “Begin with the End in Mind” seems wise to me. Before we allow our 150 member school board to thrash around what ought to be the ideal of “education” it need be stencilled on their sloping foreheads that no system can work without such an ideal in mind-what do we expect to produce? And, they are unable to define and discuss that lacking the needed knowledge.
July 14th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
The Sotomayor mindset, policy making from the bench, is a Constitutionally abusive, philosophy of failure. Capitalism (an unknown ideal according to Ayn Rand), is the exchange of value, between self determined, free & sovereign people.
July 14th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Great opinions. I say “both”. Capitalism, maybe no government works without vigilance.
July 14th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
If you think your civil rights were 'depleted' under Bush, you ain't seen nothin' yet! Of course, it's far more criminal (in your little mind) to 'deplete' those rights to protect the American people than it is simply to do so in order to gain control of those people, like your Boy Barry is doing.
July 14th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Barack Obama is 47 years old. When you refer to him as a “boy” your racist side is showing as well as your ignorance.
July 14th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
He's a manchild. There's absolutely nothing racist about calling that fact as I see it. Grow up! Oh, I forgot. Any criticism of our current president is deemed as racist. He got that ball rolling during his two year campaign.
July 14th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Capitalism isn't dead it's just taken a huge hit in the last couple of years! Greed is good, yeah right that is what has gotten us in this mess. When you start giving people houses without proper job and income varification, along with no money down you are going to have big problems. Then you take all these loans and pass them down the line as triple A paper you have some extraordinary problems. The American economy over heated with funny money. Plenty of people saw this coming but it wasn't their problem. This is now the American way, push the blame on someone else and pocket the cash!
July 15th, 2009 at 5:19 am
Hmmm…the U.S. House passed the 1100 page Health care bill.
How many of those reprobates actually READ the bill they voted on?
Why is the U.S. government wishing to punish small business owners with an 8 percent tax?
Don't like it? Vote 'em out of office. ALAS, the damage is already done. If this bill passes the Senate, and Barry signs it into law, we are screwed, glued and tattooed.
The American people have NO RECOURSE…the ballot box will not fix this problem.
July 15th, 2009 at 6:23 am
Fix away, Aires. We did that, last fall.
Get used to this. Eight years.
July 15th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Eight years factored by misery; socialists are enslavers not liberators, wielding the stick & withholding with the carrot (except to gorge themselves).
July 15th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
You're right, TA. With the help of ACORN, any election can be fixed. In fact, ACORN is now helping to 'fix' the census, so your radical president can push through his socialist agenda. It's always more important to Dems (at least, the new Dems) that they win elections rather than doing what's best for the people.
After what's already been done to this once-great nation's future, he'll be lucky if he's not run out of office before his first term is over. Now go curl up on the couch with your big bag of Cheetos and watch your American Idol reruns.
July 15th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
The two most-predictable commenters. Cry me a river, guys. I could observe that eight year sof Bush took us to our knees, and the first four were stolen.
But I won't.
Dave, crack a book once in a while and determine the definition of socialism.
Popping off on a blog does not constitute sufficient knowledge of politicla and economimc systems, to allow you to define these polices are “socialist.”
I don't like some of them either, but they're not socialist.
Rico: I don't eat Chitos. Never have. I do sometimes watch Idol, just for the ridiculous folks. Comical.
Not as funny as watching Dick Cheney complain. Now THAT's hilarious. His witless daughter, too. Funny.
July 15th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
TA,
I'm sure, in your opinion, Merriam-Webster is not an authority on defining words in the English language, but here is their first entry for the word 'socialism': 1) any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.
Barry has taken control of the banking industry, the auto industry, and he's attempting to take control of our healthcare, as we write. Once our government has complete control over our healthcare and, subsequentially, the distribution of healthcare services, you'll know the true meaning of socialism. You may not like the sound of the word, but it does, in fact, describe what is going on under this administration.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
This is the expected result from unregulated capitalism. Adam Smith clearly warned about the dangers of a truly “free” market. Trouble is the proponets of “free” markets don't ever mention this, even as they quote from “On The Wealth Of Nations.” Seems they didn't read all of it, only the parts that fit their beliefs, same as how the Bible gets selectively quoted to fit whatever one's worldview is.
Adam Smith would not be a bit surprised at all the corruption, he very plainly stated that capitalism is based upon each individual's “enlightened self-interest,” i.e., greed. That is why he stated that we must have vigilant oversight of the marketplace. It's all there in his famous treatise which few today (including Post-Grad Economists) seem to have read in toto. The system, as set up, did what it was expected to and will continue to do so until we install proper regulatory checks.
July 15th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
In other words, you would prefer for our government, with its seemingly infinite resources, to be in charge of the corruption.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:28 am
Rico, it's “President Obama,” “The President,” or something similar. “Barry” is way too informal. Disrespectful and rude.
To be a socialist country, Rico, we'd have to have a complete government ownership of all things capital. We don't. Because Pres. Bush train-wrecked the economy, he actually began a series of takeovers and stimulus programs, which were almost forced to be continued by Pres. Obama. Refer to then-Treasury Sec. Paulsen, a neocon capitalist of the first order, and his handling of same.
A govt. option in the health care insurance mix, is demanded to reignin rapidly-increaisng costs. The current plan calls for a huge participation by existing, non-govt. insurers.
So, by any reasonably-accepted definition, it is not socialism. Would you prefer something like a Health Care Administration, instead of a govt. option in the insurance mix? I'd certainly listen to that. Anything that stopped the insane 3-decade hospital building program that has amassed castles in the suburbs, almost all under-used and too expensive. They built these castles with almost no govt. oversight.
I'll help ya out: socialism means the entire economy is controlled by the govt. We're nowhere near that. The auto-bank examples you cite were evidently necessary because of the horrid condition of the economy. I have my doubts about it, but the fixes will not be permanent.
Try Malercous's advice. Re-read Adam Smith. And Madison, Franklin and Jefferson. Their papers and diaries were chock-full of Mr. Smith's warnings about a free-market system run amuck. Which is what we had from 2001-2009.
The bright side is, we've been to the darkest side, and we know what it looks like: almost total government hands-off business. It doesn't work, and we've never gone that far right before. Without oversight, the private sector will get more whorish than a Pentagon procurement officer three weeks before the fiscal year ends.
Govt. doesn't need to be in charge of corruption. Govt. needs to watch out for it and prosecute it. it's imperfect, but far preferable to your solution.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:50 am
It seems our governmental control is happening incrementally, as it ususally does with any socialist nation. If Hitler had stated his true goals in the beginning, would the people of Germany allowed it to happen? Probably not. The people first have to believe there's a (economic) crisis at hand. Barry and the gang have done a great job of convincing the people of that. They won't let this crisis go to waste.
For a relatively intelligent person, you sure have your head up your ass about what's going on in this country. Or maybe you just want to be taken care of. And Barry has spent more in 5 months then Pres. Bush did in eight years that included the 9/11 attack, two wars, and Hurricane Katrina. Grow up! This is now Barry's economy.
By the way, I'll give your president as much respect as you gave mine.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Dear TA, et al: You might enjoy the book I've cracked on Clarence Thomas- I recommend it. The free market doesn't run amuck, people do of their own volition (which belongs exclusively to them). Corruption for dollars & “power” of public & private interests is the problem, not Adam Smith or the free market. Anyone who's dealt with a bully can understand socialism; the violence of self interests to justify the abuse of others and their rights. Enlightened self interest is self responsibility, self maintenance & improvement; not greed. I'm thrilled to know that “someone somewhere,” is making a decision or transaction in their enlightened self interest, without my knowledge or permission.
July 16th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Rico, I have my head firmly where it belongs. Always have.
And I do respect the Office of President. But if you'd told me, nine years ago or so, that we would have an Oval Office Occupant who did these things, I am sure you'd have guessed it was a Democrat:
Did everything possible to avoid the draft; had influential contacts who blocked out his National Guard record; floated through two Ivy League degrees as a legacy; had his driving record expunged allegedly to avoid public scrutiny on a DUI; and the list goes on. Sounds like Teddy, huh? Nope, it's our last president.
And that doesn't even touch his record in the office. “Mission Accomplished” indeed.
It's our president, yours too. Grow up and realize it. Disagree all you want, but show some freaking respect, huh?
Dave–as a longtime student of SCOTUS, its rulings and is operation, I can say safely that few, if any, respected legal scholars have or will give much respect to anything Clarence Thomas has to say. That ship has sailed.
He drives a nice motorhome, though. That pice on “60 Minutes” was nice.
July 16th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Rico, I'm pretty sure AH laid out his whole agenda in Mein Kampf (1925-26).
And, even if unabridged versions had existed in either of the (prewar) English translations, who would have really given it much credence here or in England?
Interesting bit of trivia concerning the late Senator Alan Cranston. He worked for UPI in 1939 and published an unabridged translation of Mein Kampf in the US, and was soon after successfully sued by AH for copyright infringement. Publication ceased, but upwards of 500,000 copies had already been sold.
July 16th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Very interesting, Varan. I knew about Cranston's translation, but had forgotten. He picked up a copy of the translation when he returned to America, and it was too brief, thus condensed. He then met with the old Abner Doubleday publishing firm and secured an assignment to translate completely and fully, because he believed Hitler's threat was so real it needed ot be broadcast everywhere.
Remember, at this time, pre-1940, books and newspapers, and sometimes radio, were the main methods of communication in America.
It's just too bad folks didn't listen soon enough.
Some New Englad judge ruled in Hitler's favor on a lawsuit, so Cranston's publisher quit selling the book, altho there was doubt whether Hitler could perfect an Austrian copyright after he'd ionvaded the country and thereby violated many of the international treaties in force at the time.
Hitler's nonsense couldn't survive as long in today's multi-media world. He fostered hate and spread his bile mostly because people weren't able ot pay much attention. He operated in a bubble, and by the time the world figured out his bizarre and cruel scheme, it was too late.
July 16th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Dear TA: The Thomas' RV is sweet craft & I'd enjoy nothing more than catching his act when I'm likewise touring on two wheels- met great folks on the road. Some days after all that riding or time on the bench, the SCOTUS can get a little itchy, but even robed coworkers like RBG have been enthusiastic about his inclusion on the court.
July 16th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
President Bush had better grades in college than both Gore and the brilliant John Kerry (who should have tried for treason). And do you really want to discuss the blocking of records? I didn't think so.
Your party defends to this day the accused rapist, disbarred, philandering Bill Clinton. Now, your president (with no experience) has surrounded himself with anti-American, flag-burning scumbags, and you have entrusted him with your future. He has lied to you countless times since he's been in office, but it doesn't matter to you because he's so eloquent. I do find comfort in the fact that your head is 'firmly' up your ass and you feel that's where it belongs.
Incidentally, how do you feel about our affirmative action Supreme Court nominee destroying the English language? You wouldn't shut up about Sarah Palin's word usage and grammar. Sonia sounds like an idiot, but you're surprisingly silent. Hmmmm?
July 16th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
And Barack Obama hired a science 'czar' that wrote a book supporting eugenics and compulsory abortion. Not Hitler-like, huh?
July 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
VIOLATED GHANDI DEADLY SINS:
1. Commerce without Morality.
2. Politics without principle
3. Pleasure without conscience
July 16th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
SCIENCE CZAR VIOLATES GHANDI DEADLY SIN:
Science without humanity
July 16th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
It seems our governmental control is happening incrementally, as it ususally does with any socialist nation. If Hitler had stated his true goals in the beginning, would the people of Germany allowed it to happen? Probably not. The people first have to believe there's a (economic) crisis at hand. Barry and the gang have done a great job of convincing the people of that. They won't let this crisis go to waste.
For a relatively intelligent person, you sure have your head up your ass about what's going on in this country. Or maybe you just want to be taken care of. And Barry has spent more in 5 months then Pres. Bush did in eight years that included the 9/11 attack, two wars, and Hurricane Katrina. Grow up! This is now Barry's economy.
By the way, I'll give your president as much respect as you gave mine.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Dear TA, et al: You might enjoy the book I've cracked on Clarence Thomas- I recommend it. The free market doesn't run amuck, people do of their own volition (which belongs exclusively to them). Corruption for dollars & “power” of public & private interests is the problem, not Adam Smith or the free market. Anyone who's dealt with a bully can understand socialism; the violence of self interests to justify the abuse of others and their rights. Enlightened self interest is self responsibility, self maintenance & improvement; not greed. I'm thrilled to know that “someone somewhere,” is making a decision or transaction in their enlightened self interest, without my knowledge or permission.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Rico, I have my head firmly where it belongs. Always have.
And I do respect the Office of President. But if you'd told me, nine years ago or so, that we would have an Oval Office Occupant who did these things, I am sure you'd have guessed it was a Democrat:
Did everything possible to avoid the draft; had influential contacts who blocked out his National Guard record; floated through two Ivy League degrees as a legacy; had his driving record expunged allegedly to avoid public scrutiny on a DUI; and the list goes on. Sounds like Teddy, huh? Nope, it's our last president.
And that doesn't even touch his record in the office. “Mission Accomplished” indeed.
It's our president, yours too. Grow up and realize it. Disagree all you want, but show some freaking respect, huh?
Dave–as a longtime student of SCOTUS, its rulings and is operation, I can say safely that few, if any, respected legal scholars have or will give much respect to anything Clarence Thomas has to say. That ship has sailed.
He drives a nice motorhome, though. That pice on “60 Minutes” was nice.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Rico, I'm pretty sure AH laid out his whole agenda in Mein Kampf (1925-26).
And, even if unabridged versions had existed in either of the (prewar) English translations, who would have really given it much credence here or in England?
Interesting bit of trivia concerning the late Senator Alan Cranston. He worked for UPI in 1939 and published an unabridged translation of Mein Kampf in the US, and was soon after successfully sued by AH for copyright infringement. Publication ceased, but upwards of 500,000 copies had already been sold.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Very interesting, Varan. I knew about Cranston's translation, but had forgotten. He picked up a copy of the translation when he returned to America, and it was too brief, thus condensed. He then met with the old Abner Doubleday publishing firm and secured an assignment to translate completely and fully, because he believed Hitler's threat was so real it needed ot be broadcast everywhere.
Remember, at this time, pre-1940, books and newspapers, and sometimes radio, were the main methods of communication in America.
It's just too bad folks didn't listen soon enough.
Some New Englad judge ruled in Hitler's favor on a lawsuit, so Cranston's publisher quit selling the book, altho there was doubt whether Hitler could perfect an Austrian copyright after he'd ionvaded the country and thereby violated many of the international treaties in force at the time.
Hitler's nonsense couldn't survive as long in today's multi-media world. He fostered hate and spread his bile mostly because people weren't able ot pay much attention. He operated in a bubble, and by the time the world figured out his bizarre and cruel scheme, it was too late.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Dear TA: The Thomas' RV is sweet craft & I'd enjoy nothing more than catching his act when I'm likewise touring on two wheels- met great folks on the road. Some days after all that riding or time on the bench, the SCOTUS can get a little itchy, but even robed coworkers like RBG have been enthusiastic about his inclusion on the court.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
President Bush had better grades in college than both Gore and the brilliant John Kerry (who should have tried for treason). And do you really want to discuss the blocking of records? I didn't think so.
Your party defends to this day the accused rapist, disbarred, philandering Bill Clinton. Now, your president (with no experience) has surrounded himself with anti-American, flag-burning scumbags, and you have entrusted him with your future. He has lied to you countless times since he's been in office, but it doesn't matter to you because he's so eloquent. I do find comfort in the fact that your head is 'firmly' up your ass and you feel that's where it belongs.
Incidentally, how do you feel about our affirmative action Supreme Court nominee destroying the English language? You wouldn't shut up about Sarah Palin's word usage and grammar. Sonia sounds like an idiot, but you're surprisingly silent. Hmmmm?
July 16th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
And Barack Obama hired a science 'czar' that wrote a book supporting eugenics and compulsory abortion. Not Hitler-like, huh?
July 16th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
VIOLATED GHANDI DEADLY SINS:
1. Commerce without Morality.
2. Politics without principle
3. Pleasure without conscience
July 16th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
SCIENCE CZAR VIOLATES GHANDI DEADLY SIN:
Science without humanity