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	<title>Comments on: Memorial Day Weekend Update</title>
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	<description>Indiana Barrister is the source for local Indianapolis and Indiana news, politics and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: Melyssa</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23674</link>
		<dc:creator>Melyssa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 15:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23674</guid>
		<description>Mauri...you hit the nail on the head!  There are two parties and you are correct, they are: 
.
“by the people, for the people and about the good of the people” 
.
“by the politicos, for the politicos and about the good of the politicos” 

(politicos = entrenched elites including their appointees who spend our money)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mauri&#8230;you hit the nail on the head!  There are two parties and you are correct, they are:<br />
.<br />
“by the people, for the people and about the good of the people”<br />
.<br />
“by the politicos, for the politicos and about the good of the politicos” </p>
<p>(politicos = entrenched elites including their appointees who spend our money)</p>
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		<title>By: Melyssa</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23673</link>
		<dc:creator>Melyssa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 15:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23673</guid>
		<description>The Libertarians are responsible for shaking up the politics in this town lately.  I have a feeling it&#039;s just begun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Libertarians are responsible for shaking up the politics in this town lately.  I have a feeling it&#8217;s just begun.</p>
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		<title>By: Think Again</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23654</link>
		<dc:creator>Think Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 16:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23654</guid>
		<description>No, Greg, you couldn&#039;t be more wrong.  

I learn from people with whom I disagree.  They force me to examine my views, accept new information if appropriate, and sometimes change my views.

In order to have open and helpful dialogue, there has to be a modicum of respect and intelligence on the both sides.  Having been to probably 15 council meetings in the last four years, and watched most of them on Ch. 16, I doubt I could serve with most of the council members, past or present.  

I just don&#039;t suffer fools gladly. Doubt my take on things?  Watch a few meetings.  If you can get through the resolutions for Aunt Fannie&#039;s championship quilt, you&#039;re half-way home.

Most of them are gasbags or incredibly partisan in that &quot;gotcha&quot; sense of the word. And they&#039;re way too impressed with themselves.  I don&#039;t choose to spend my free time arguing with that kind of goof.  The aggravation isn&#039;t worth it.

When I was younger I&#039;d jump head-first into that kind of environment.  Now, give me a good round of golf, or a good book, or some time with my kids or at my church, and my spare time is great.

Government demands that we participate, so I try in my own way.  I just don&#039;t want to spend 10-20 hours a week with the kid of person who is in the majority on the council.

I don&#039;t mean &quot;majority&quot; in the D or R sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Greg, you couldn&#8217;t be more wrong.  </p>
<p>I learn from people with whom I disagree.  They force me to examine my views, accept new information if appropriate, and sometimes change my views.</p>
<p>In order to have open and helpful dialogue, there has to be a modicum of respect and intelligence on the both sides.  Having been to probably 15 council meetings in the last four years, and watched most of them on Ch. 16, I doubt I could serve with most of the council members, past or present.  </p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t suffer fools gladly. Doubt my take on things?  Watch a few meetings.  If you can get through the resolutions for Aunt Fannie&#8217;s championship quilt, you&#8217;re half-way home.</p>
<p>Most of them are gasbags or incredibly partisan in that &#8220;gotcha&#8221; sense of the word. And they&#8217;re way too impressed with themselves.  I don&#8217;t choose to spend my free time arguing with that kind of goof.  The aggravation isn&#8217;t worth it.</p>
<p>When I was younger I&#8217;d jump head-first into that kind of environment.  Now, give me a good round of golf, or a good book, or some time with my kids or at my church, and my spare time is great.</p>
<p>Government demands that we participate, so I try in my own way.  I just don&#8217;t want to spend 10-20 hours a week with the kid of person who is in the majority on the council.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mean &#8220;majority&#8221; in the D or R sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg P</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23650</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 15:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23650</guid>
		<description>Think Again,  I suspect when you say you would want the other councilors to be there for the right reasons that what you mean is that they think like you and vote like you.  This is a diverse city and even within each party caucus,  there are many different points of view and needs.   Ed Coleman is the only councilor whose caucus always has 100% agreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think Again,  I suspect when you say you would want the other councilors to be there for the right reasons that what you mean is that they think like you and vote like you.  This is a diverse city and even within each party caucus,  there are many different points of view and needs.   Ed Coleman is the only councilor whose caucus always has 100% agreement.</p>
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		<title>By: Think Again</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23648</link>
		<dc:creator>Think Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 13:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23648</guid>
		<description>Acrimony does rule, Taxpayer...but it&#039;s more a sense of &quot;gotcha.&quot;  Each party tries too hard to out-gotcha the other party, and good government is the loser.

It also discourages better candidates fro running.  City-County Council members make something like $13-16K a year.  Not chump change, but consider: you can&#039;t really make much of a difference unless you&#039;re one of the top two or three in each party.  You have to deal with other councillors, too many of whom are functional boobs.  You sacrifice maybe 50-60 nights a year for meetings, sometimes more.  And your phone rings off the wall.

I could take all of that if I knew I&#039;d work with fellow Councillors, a majority of whom were there for the right reasons and who could add to 20 without taking off their sox.  But at the end of the day, I wouldn&#039;t do it for triple the pay.  There&#039;s just no shared view of the common good.  Or not enough of it.

Sometimes I think we should just stand back and let Ed Treacy and Tom John bloviate on City Council issues.  That&#039;s where it ultimately ends up anyway.  Cut out the middle men/women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Acrimony does rule, Taxpayer&#8230;but it&#8217;s more a sense of &#8220;gotcha.&#8221;  Each party tries too hard to out-gotcha the other party, and good government is the loser.</p>
<p>It also discourages better candidates fro running.  City-County Council members make something like $13-16K a year.  Not chump change, but consider: you can&#8217;t really make much of a difference unless you&#8217;re one of the top two or three in each party.  You have to deal with other councillors, too many of whom are functional boobs.  You sacrifice maybe 50-60 nights a year for meetings, sometimes more.  And your phone rings off the wall.</p>
<p>I could take all of that if I knew I&#8217;d work with fellow Councillors, a majority of whom were there for the right reasons and who could add to 20 without taking off their sox.  But at the end of the day, I wouldn&#8217;t do it for triple the pay.  There&#8217;s just no shared view of the common good.  Or not enough of it.</p>
<p>Sometimes I think we should just stand back and let Ed Treacy and Tom John bloviate on City Council issues.  That&#8217;s where it ultimately ends up anyway.  Cut out the middle men/women.</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer 834512</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23647</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer 834512</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 12:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23647</guid>
		<description>Thank you very much for the reply.  Less admin overhead &amp; &quot;privatization&quot; of big $, specialized services seem like goals that could be bipartisanly pursued.  However, dismantling of a layer of gov&#039;t most states don&#039;t have also seemed like a no-brainer.  If the desired extra taxation is not on sales, and increased property taxes being off the table, that leaves income, or I think more likely- some services.
.
The achievement in any of this requires citizen activism to check greed.  There&#039;s much to be agree upon if it&#039;s perceived we all get to shoulder some load.  Without a perception of joint sacrifice, the pendulum of excess and acrimony just continues it&#039;s wide swing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much for the reply.  Less admin overhead &amp; &#8220;privatization&#8221; of big $, specialized services seem like goals that could be bipartisanly pursued.  However, dismantling of a layer of gov&#8217;t most states don&#8217;t have also seemed like a no-brainer.  If the desired extra taxation is not on sales, and increased property taxes being off the table, that leaves income, or I think more likely- some services.<br />
.<br />
The achievement in any of this requires citizen activism to check greed.  There&#8217;s much to be agree upon if it&#8217;s perceived we all get to shoulder some load.  Without a perception of joint sacrifice, the pendulum of excess and acrimony just continues it&#8217;s wide swing.</p>
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		<title>By: Think Again</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23639</link>
		<dc:creator>Think Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 16:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23639</guid>
		<description>Well, pascal, that&#039;s one way of looking at it.  I grew up near Muncie, and have cousins who still live there.  Their unique fire-fighting needs are augmented by one of the state&#039;s largest universities, which has taller buildings than the rest of the city.  Those unique safety needs require additional staffing and equipment. The university, in session two-thirds of the year, swells Muncie&#039;s population by 30-40%.  Fire Departments have to staff and plan for the worst potential tragedies.

My cousins are rock-ribbed Reagan republicans.  They lament the day Shirley was elected.  I read the Muncie paper every day, and let&#039;s just say, in that Republican forum, she has badly mis-managed her plight.

Of course, Muncie has a history of corrupt Democratic mayors, too...Paul Cooley and Big Jim Carey come to mind.  But their incumbent seems a failure from afar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, pascal, that&#8217;s one way of looking at it.  I grew up near Muncie, and have cousins who still live there.  Their unique fire-fighting needs are augmented by one of the state&#8217;s largest universities, which has taller buildings than the rest of the city.  Those unique safety needs require additional staffing and equipment. The university, in session two-thirds of the year, swells Muncie&#8217;s population by 30-40%.  Fire Departments have to staff and plan for the worst potential tragedies.</p>
<p>My cousins are rock-ribbed Reagan republicans.  They lament the day Shirley was elected.  I read the Muncie paper every day, and let&#8217;s just say, in that Republican forum, she has badly mis-managed her plight.</p>
<p>Of course, Muncie has a history of corrupt Democratic mayors, too&#8230;Paul Cooley and Big Jim Carey come to mind.  But their incumbent seems a failure from afar.</p>
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		<title>By: pascal</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23636</link>
		<dc:creator>pascal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 12:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23636</guid>
		<description>The Muncie Fire Department has been historically overstaffed by at least 50% for decades.  Their union contract would make Darko blush with envy. When the dumb Republicans allowed firemen and policemen to be elected to City Councils Muncie took every advantage of it and the fireman dominated the dumbocrat party in Muncie (still does) and their tools on City Council led by Phil Nicols rewrote the Contract in a manner very unfavorable to the public.  Folks familiar with Muncie know it&#039;s record of very high taxes and very low provision of services. The legislature can take credit for forcing the Muncie Fire Department back to a normal staffing level. Shed no tears for those loafers and economic thieves and praise the lady Mayor for doing what none of her predecessors had the stomach for.  She has more balls than Ballard?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Muncie Fire Department has been historically overstaffed by at least 50% for decades.  Their union contract would make Darko blush with envy. When the dumb Republicans allowed firemen and policemen to be elected to City Councils Muncie took every advantage of it and the fireman dominated the dumbocrat party in Muncie (still does) and their tools on City Council led by Phil Nicols rewrote the Contract in a manner very unfavorable to the public.  Folks familiar with Muncie know it&#8217;s record of very high taxes and very low provision of services. The legislature can take credit for forcing the Muncie Fire Department back to a normal staffing level. Shed no tears for those loafers and economic thieves and praise the lady Mayor for doing what none of her predecessors had the stomach for.  She has more balls than Ballard?</p>
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		<title>By: Mauri</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23635</link>
		<dc:creator>Mauri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 06:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23635</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really geting tired of the back and forth about the dems and reps , which is conservative or liberal or smart or connected.  Maybe we should create two new parties - call one of them &quot;by the people, for the people and about the good of the people&quot; - the other could be called &quot;by the politicos, for the politicos, and about the good of the politicos&quot;. !!  Just which party do you think would get the most votes on election day.???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really geting tired of the back and forth about the dems and reps , which is conservative or liberal or smart or connected.  Maybe we should create two new parties &#8211; call one of them &#8220;by the people, for the people and about the good of the people&#8221; &#8211; the other could be called &#8220;by the politicos, for the politicos, and about the good of the politicos&#8221;. !!  Just which party do you think would get the most votes on election day.???</p>
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		<title>By: Think Again</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/05/weekend_update-4.html/comment-page-1#comment-23634</link>
		<dc:creator>Think Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 01:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1973#comment-23634</guid>
		<description>I am no fan of Mitch but can&#039;t for the life of me figure out why the Muncie situation is his fault.  Sounds like their new mayor is a 14K goof without any Statehouse help.

Taxpayer, your question is fair.  I don&#039;t run the world, and you&#039;re probably all glad for that.  If I did, here&#039;s what I&#039;d cut on the spending side, city-budget wise, since we were mostly talking about city budgets:

We basically nee dot do what schools need to do--eliminate a heavy top tier and shove duties down the ranks to qualified and less-expensive personnel.

We need one, maybe two deputy mayors.  And, as a non-monetary comment, we need each of them to be able to speak intelligent English, not jibberish.  

We need to cut the command staff at IMPD and IFD.  

Wherever possible, let some control go, stop buying expensive equipment, and contract out as many heavy-equipment duties as we can.  Heavy equipment is just getting more and more expensive. And our employees don&#039;t generally take very good care of it.

Start assessing development impact fees for all new commercial construction, including any home sits beyond 3 lots.  We&#039;re one of the few large urban areas that don&#039;t do it.  Example: when the Marsh center was built at 82nd/Allisonville, Goldsmith&#039;s folks wanted it, so they leaned on traffic engineers to say the impact on that intersection would be minimal.  Which was and is a joke.  That is one of the state&#039;s top three busiest intersections, and crashes have increased dramatically.  Better engineering and lights, funded by the developers, would&#039;ve been good.

There are just a few examples, but...it still isn&#039;t nearly enough to pay for the ignored big-ticket items.  What we really need downtown is a wholesale attitude change about delivery of services.

And it won&#039;t ever happen.  (sigh)

On the tax side--not a damned penny more sales tax.  It&#039;s regressive and it&#039;s a quick-fix throughout history.  

We can bulldoze abandoned homesites and sell them for a dollar...there are more ideas, but I&#039;m not mayor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am no fan of Mitch but can&#8217;t for the life of me figure out why the Muncie situation is his fault.  Sounds like their new mayor is a 14K goof without any Statehouse help.</p>
<p>Taxpayer, your question is fair.  I don&#8217;t run the world, and you&#8217;re probably all glad for that.  If I did, here&#8217;s what I&#8217;d cut on the spending side, city-budget wise, since we were mostly talking about city budgets:</p>
<p>We basically nee dot do what schools need to do&#8211;eliminate a heavy top tier and shove duties down the ranks to qualified and less-expensive personnel.</p>
<p>We need one, maybe two deputy mayors.  And, as a non-monetary comment, we need each of them to be able to speak intelligent English, not jibberish.  </p>
<p>We need to cut the command staff at IMPD and IFD.  </p>
<p>Wherever possible, let some control go, stop buying expensive equipment, and contract out as many heavy-equipment duties as we can.  Heavy equipment is just getting more and more expensive. And our employees don&#8217;t generally take very good care of it.</p>
<p>Start assessing development impact fees for all new commercial construction, including any home sits beyond 3 lots.  We&#8217;re one of the few large urban areas that don&#8217;t do it.  Example: when the Marsh center was built at 82nd/Allisonville, Goldsmith&#8217;s folks wanted it, so they leaned on traffic engineers to say the impact on that intersection would be minimal.  Which was and is a joke.  That is one of the state&#8217;s top three busiest intersections, and crashes have increased dramatically.  Better engineering and lights, funded by the developers, would&#8217;ve been good.</p>
<p>There are just a few examples, but&#8230;it still isn&#8217;t nearly enough to pay for the ignored big-ticket items.  What we really need downtown is a wholesale attitude change about delivery of services.</p>
<p>And it won&#8217;t ever happen.  (sigh)</p>
<p>On the tax side&#8211;not a damned penny more sales tax.  It&#8217;s regressive and it&#8217;s a quick-fix throughout history.  </p>
<p>We can bulldoze abandoned homesites and sell them for a dollar&#8230;there are more ideas, but I&#8217;m not mayor.</p>
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