Suddenly, I C.I.B.
I spent a good chunk of the day trying to get a feel on what Indiana lawmakers will unveil on Thursday with respect to the Capital Improvement Board and its multi-million dollar operations deficit. Here’s what I’ve been able to gather so far.
- There are a mix of options on the table, however user fees appear to be the funding mechanism of choice.
- All parties involved are expected to pitch in, the state, the city, the Colts and the Pacers. The question is exactly how much and in what form. Think of it as four people ordering dinner and they have to split the check four ways, but some just had the salad while others had the steak.
- Don’t be surprised that in order to get the rest of the Legislature to buy in, there’s some mechanism included so other cities and counties can pay for their economic development projects.
- I would not be surprised if that funding mechanism is an increase in the tax on alcohol that you purchase in grocery and liquor stores, but not at bars and taverns.
- I am being led to believe that the legislation will originate out of Senate Appropriations. There will be public testimony and a vote taken that day.
- Expect bi-partisan support on this one.
That’s what I’ve been able to gather so far. The situation is still fluid and the whole deal could still fall apart, which is why no one will comment on the record.
Stay tuned. Thursday could be a fun day or a total train wreck.
March 30th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
I’m betting it will be a train wreck. They know that cat is out of the bag. They know Ogden and Welsh spoke inside the state house and that those two have the number.
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Tell me, since “everything” is on the table, we can expect an audit of the Pacers books, right?
March 30th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
I could be wrong, and the animal known as the General Assembly is not necessarily a stickler for morals, rules or ethics, but:
I believe revenue bills must originate in the House, via Ways and Means. Or, get tacked onto a conference report at the end.
Whatever the vehicle, train wreck is a typical session-ending tactic. The real laws are written in the halls by America’s worst-regulated lobbyists.
March 30th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
I have a totally crazy idea! What if they raised money for the venue through selling tickets for it? In other words, what if the people who use Conseco pay for it with each ticket they buy? I know this is a totally new and fringe idea, but what if people received a service by actually paying for it instead of asking the government for it? The idea being promoted by the Pacers and some legislators is to have the government steal the money at gunpoint from other segments of society that may or may not use the facility.
March 30th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
It’s also highly doubtful if most legislators have ever heard of Paul Ogden or Gary Welsh.
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Rhetoric may be soaring and logical arguments compelling but the only numbers that really count at our Legislature are the figures on Election night…
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Never forget that!
March 30th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
inDglass for Mayor.
March 30th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Just in case any legislator reads this–my poor little county out in the boonies does not feel any reason to support Indy financial mistakes. Going to tax the few alcohol outlets should raise a whole whooping $1,000 or so dollars a year. Keep raising the cost of living and we will have a big increase in moonshine production as people seek to cope with life.
March 30th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
inDglass – that’s crazy talk. Batshit crazy. What you’re suggesting is that attendees of sporting events should cover the costs. That leaves no room to take profit directly from the taxpayers if attendance falls short. Come back and try again when you have real ideas – something that keeps money flowing into wealthy pockets even if the economy goes south.
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That’s what this is all about. Keeping the green flowing even when the economy stops. Hence an alcohol tax to cover CIB profiteers. If it was a straight cost/benefit arrangement based on actual operating costs and long-term viability, the CIB would be washing their hands of the sports teams. But that’s not what this game is about. It’s about keeping the green flowing, regardless of viability. CIB and athletic team viability is the local version of climate change – taxation based upon nothing more than a strawman argument that has no evidenciary value when contrasted against stark reality.
March 30th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
And another thing… from the time I could walk I was taught that taxation without representation was justification to eliminate and replace greedy, self-indulgent government.
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In fact, I don’t have to think too hard to remember that taxation without representation was the catalyst to separate ourselves from authoratarian England – who took our money with no justification.
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Can anyone explain why that premise no longer applies? Have we been trained to place faith in a system that uses us for profit?
March 30th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Bars and taverns get a pass on more expensive beer & liquor, yet make their money off game day sales while we chumps at home who might (MIGHT) turn-on the tv pay more at the grocery store? Boy, that sounds mighty square and equitable, doesn’t it? If that gets passed, tell your liquor industry fill-in buddies to wear pirate hats and bring a parrot next time they do the show, Abdul.
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Better yet, explain why kids in need of mentoring and decent schools, streets in need of filled potholes, sewers in need of repair, neighborhoods in need of police, parks that need maintenance, and abandoned homes that need to be torn down don’t get this kind of grand collaboration? This is civilization, huh?
March 30th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Indianapolis – World Class city, right?
March 30th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Yes, SB. We have been trained to place our faith in a system that uses us for profit.
March 31st, 2009 at 5:32 am
What time is public testimony to happen? Who knows right? Than means they would really want to hear from the public if they were to let us know that. I’ve emailed and calling my rep & senator later. Apparently today’s the last day to let them know what you think on this matter. Please speak-up if you haven’t.
March 31st, 2009 at 6:23 am
Today’s not the last day for anything, Taxpayer. Call and write and visit right up until Sine Die.
Most of them hate seeing you. THey’re too busy being wined and dined.
March 31st, 2009 at 8:30 am
Gee, Wilson, a lot more people know me down at the legislature than you would think. I’ve been pretty active in politics. Certainly the entire Marion County delegation knows me.
Abdul, good reporting. I didn’t see you though addess the notion of a reorganization f the CIB, which some legislators have talked about. I would think that would be a distinct possibility.
March 31st, 2009 at 8:35 am
Besides gov’t services I’ve listed before, I imagine the near 10% who are umemployed in our state think unemployment benefits are more important than professional sports. Tell your Indiana Assemblymen: Senate:232-9400 House:232-9600
March 31st, 2009 at 9:00 am
So in other words no matter how you break it down we’re all getting fraked…again…over sports corporations in Indy. :^(
March 31st, 2009 at 9:59 am
Taxpayer, the Republican mantra on unemployment insurance, since at least 1972 when I started paying attention, has been a rough version of this:
Employers shouldn’t have to pay very much for it. There shouldn’t be a huge surplus in the fund during boom times. The receipients are lazy.
Now, you can deny this, but I can quote you chapter and verse, and cite specific senators over the years, who have said basically this. And those senators were in powerful positions to kill changes in the structure of the UI Fund.
They were senators who had large manufacturing or service businesses themselves, and who were confidently in the pocket of the Indiana Chamber and the Indiana Manufacturers Association. The same party has ruled the Senate since the mid 70s, pal, and that’s not good for any of us. Bob Freaking Garton…Ivy Tech’s payroll pal, was president most of that time. A professional public speaker. My God, that’s what we had leading us.
We should’ve beefed up this fund when times were better. And yeah, I know some recipients abuse the fund. But I know several who don’t. My tax dollars are just fine helping them. Because the Fund, you see, is broke from regular employer premiums.
It seems none of us can save properly–corporations or individuals. God forbid our Senate should mandate more premiums for a broke fund.
March 31st, 2009 at 10:20 am
I can only see two taxes that could be raised without to much heat on those in charge. Alcohol and a user tax. if they even look at the food tax, you will see the protest start again. Has anyone notice the price of smokes today? Wait still the new federal tax goes into effect tomorrow. And Obama promies no tax raise on the middle class or poor. Ha
March 31st, 2009 at 11:21 am
David–he’ll keep that promise.
March 31st, 2009 at 11:59 am
TA – He’ll keep the promise? By further indebting us? If I take out a loan and name you as the responsible party for repaying it, and I am the government, am I not increasing your tax burden? Just because you aren’t getting the invoice today doesn’t mean you won’t be obligated to repay it in one form or another.
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And then there’s that tax that’s hidden in plain sight – also known as inflation. When the Fed decides to circulate hundreds of billions of additional dollars, and the Congress does not act to regulate or stop that destructive activity, it’s an indirect tax on the people. When Obama issues blanket approval of these measures, he’s taxing us.
March 31st, 2009 at 2:07 pm
We’ll likely not agree on unemployment insurance as an entitlement, regarding percentage of funding, duration, or accountability when it runs dry. But, fiscally “severe” as I may be, I’ll back a whole lot more finite versions of it than I will building and operating sports stadiums.
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Sorry to get the days of the week screwed up earlier.
March 31st, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Be careful using logic on TA, Shorebreak. Her head may implode.