Comments on: Pace Yourself http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html Indiana Barrister is the source for local Indianapolis and Indiana news, politics and commentary. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:47:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Greg http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20887 Greg Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:46:15 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20887 To Dan in post 25. Look at posts 30 and 31. Indianapolis back in the day did not suffer the flight from the county and the extensive decay that we see now. What good is a sports francise in a city that no one will live it. I am not sure what you mean in your statement "Sure we have lots of needs but none of the things mentioned would make any difference if just sit on the stoop and talk about our neighbors while we let every improvment to our city slip away." I could be that we are in agreement. I just could not tell from your overall messsage. To Dan in post 25. Look at posts 30 and 31. Indianapolis back in the day did not suffer the flight from the county and the extensive decay that we see now. What good is a sports francise in a city that no one will live it.
I am not sure what you mean in your statement “Sure we have lots of needs but none of the things mentioned would make any difference if just sit on the stoop and talk about our neighbors while we let every improvment to our city slip away.” I could be that we are in agreement. I just could not tell from your overall messsage.

]]> By: Robert-NW Side http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20866 Robert-NW Side Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:26:23 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20866 Hello John H, - What I personally find relevant is the apparant lack of loyalty. Colt's certainly demonstrated their loyalty. - Departing Indy is certainly 'on the table' for the Pacers. Hello John H,
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What I personally find relevant is the apparant lack of loyalty. Colt’s certainly demonstrated their loyalty.
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Departing Indy is certainly ‘on the table’ for the Pacers.

]]> By: Mark Rutherford http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20858 Mark Rutherford Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:43:56 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20858 To those who may want to know how Indianapolis does not benefit from sports stadiums and other corporate welfare projects, read CATO's David Boaz' post "Congress Looks at Stadium Subsidies" http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/03/27/congress-looks-at-stadium-subsidies/ To those who may want to know how Indianapolis does not benefit from sports stadiums and other corporate welfare projects, read CATO’s David Boaz’ post “Congress Looks at Stadium Subsidies” http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/03/27/congress-looks-at-stadium-subsidies/

]]> By: Mark Rutherford http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20857 Mark Rutherford Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:38:33 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20857 A sewer system that continually overflows raw sewage in the rivers and streams of this city, or sports palaces for the Pacers and Colts. This city continually picks sports palaces over responsible and modern sewage systems. It also does the same when it comes to an adequate and a well maintained public parks system. This needs to change. Back to basics and do the basics well! A sewer system that continually overflows raw sewage in the rivers and streams of this city, or sports palaces for the Pacers and Colts. This city continually picks sports palaces over responsible and modern sewage systems. It also does the same when it comes to an adequate and a well maintained public parks system. This needs to change. Back to basics and do the basics well!

]]> By: thundermutt http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20856 thundermutt Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:21:46 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20856 To those who want to know how Indianapolis benefits from investment in convention centers, sports, etc., here is some real information from a legitimate source: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1280157 To those who want to know how Indianapolis benefits from investment in convention centers, sports, etc., here is some real information from a legitimate source:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1280157

]]> By: John Howard http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20850 John Howard Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:04:37 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20850 Robert, what do you find interesting (or relevant to the current situation) in that link? Robert, what do you find interesting (or relevant to the current situation) in that link?

]]> By: Robert-NW Side http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20842 Robert-NW Side Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:03:43 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20842 Here is some interesting reading about the Colt's, when they 'Mayflowered' here from Baltimore. - INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL OF BALTIMORE, Defendant-Appellant, and CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD OF MANAGERS OF MARION COUNTY, Defendant-Appellee UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT No. 84-1649 May 4, 1984, Submitted—May 8, 1984, Decided 733 F.2d 484 - http://www.projectposner.org/case/1984/733F2d484 Here is some interesting reading about the Colt’s, when they ‘Mayflowered’ here from Baltimore.
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INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, Plaintiff-Appellee,
v.
MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL OF BALTIMORE, Defendant-Appellant, and CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD OF MANAGERS OF MARION COUNTY, Defendant-Appellee
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT
No. 84-1649
May 4, 1984, Submitted—May 8, 1984, Decided
733 F.2d 484
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http://www.projectposner.org/case/1984/733F2d484

]]> By: Robert-NW Side http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20839 Robert-NW Side Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:45:00 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20839 Using tax dollars for this is theft, pure and simple. Any time government uses tax dollars to support something that people would not donate to is absolutely egregious. - ANY private venture that cannot survive without extorted money does not deserve to survive. - The killer is that people that are NOT fanatics (fans), are expected to help foot the bill. - Maddening is the fact that the CIB are NOT elected by We the People, yet they are levying taxes upon us. - CIB President Bob Grand said raising hospitality taxes is one possibly solution. "Everything is on the table except [raising homeowners'] property taxes," he said. "I have not speculated on the likelihood of any specific solution but am committed to get a solution." - http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=119&ArticleID=46205 - I don't give a damn for the "it's only a few cents on your restaurant bill" excuse. The very idea of forced taxation to support something that government should NOT be doing is egregious. - Don't think government uses force to collect this so-called measly little tax? Try deducting the tax from your restaurant bill. You will be reported to government police, who will come after you. If you resist, they will use physical force upon you. Resist them enough, and they might very well kill you. - All for a tax to support sports. Using tax dollars for this is theft, pure and simple. Any time government uses tax dollars to support something that people would not donate to is absolutely egregious.
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ANY private venture that cannot survive without extorted money does not deserve to survive.
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The killer is that people that are NOT fanatics (fans), are expected to help foot the bill.
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Maddening is the fact that the CIB are NOT elected by We the People, yet they are levying taxes upon us.
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CIB President Bob Grand said raising hospitality taxes is one possibly solution.
“Everything is on the table except [raising homeowners'] property taxes,” he said. “I have not speculated on the likelihood of any specific solution but am committed to get a solution.”
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http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=119&ArticleID=46205
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I don’t give a damn for the “it’s only a few cents on your restaurant bill” excuse. The very idea of forced taxation to support something that government should NOT be doing is egregious.
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Don’t think government uses force to collect this so-called measly little tax? Try deducting the tax from your restaurant bill. You will be reported to government police, who will come after you. If you resist, they will use physical force upon you. Resist them enough, and they might very well kill you.
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All for a tax to support sports.

]]> By: Dan Wann http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20834 Dan Wann Tue, 10 Mar 2009 05:48:07 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20834 A friend, real and FB, invited me to be a FB friend of Abdul and Chris. What an education for me. Jerry, I am not as avid a fan as you but have always supported our city having Pro sports, Arts and events that promote Indy as something more than the Nap town image it had when I came to college here in 1966. If city leaders had had the attitude that I hear on this site then, this would be a ghost town today. Sure we have lots of needs but none of the things mentioned would make any difference if just sit on the stoop and talk about our neighbors while we let every improvment to our city slip away. The comments on this site seem like something from a school yard playground and kids talking about things they know little about. I am glad you are not in charge of anything. A friend, real and FB, invited me to be a FB friend of Abdul and Chris. What an education for me. Jerry, I am not as avid a fan as you but have always supported our city having Pro sports, Arts and events that promote Indy as something more than the Nap town image it had when I came to college here in 1966. If city leaders had had the attitude that I hear on this site then, this would be a ghost town today. Sure we have lots of needs but none of the things mentioned would make any difference if just sit on the stoop and talk about our neighbors while we let every improvment to our city slip away. The comments on this site seem like something from a school yard playground and kids talking about things they know little about. I am glad you are not in charge of anything.

]]> By: Jerry http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/03/pace_yourself.html/comment-page-1#comment-20832 Jerry Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:56:48 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1770#comment-20832 OK, I seem like the only Pacers fan on this site, and I am a HUGE fan. I've gone to over 20 games this year and have watched every game on TV except for two. - First thing I would like to clarify is the statement by flipper: "If the Pacers leave. Maybe crime in Indy will drop another few percent." Come on man, what else does the organization have to do? They got rid of Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, and have made a nearly unprecedented move of not playing Jamal Tinsely the entire season. He's really not even on the team! It turned out Jermaine O'Neal had a bad attitude, he's gone. All of the bad guys are gone. The "new Pacers" have not been in trouble one time all season, and they are a super group of guys, which is a nice change for Indy. Pacer teammates say this team has the best chemistry of any team they've ever been on. The record isn't great, but they are the most consistent in the league and have the most close game losses. They don't lose by a lot which means in a couple years they could be a contender again, and they are down by a couple games to get in the playoffs this season. - All this being said, I think this is more about the Simons than the Pacers. The Simons get a lot of positive PR from the Pacers, free advertising for Simon Malls and other investments, and probably a bunch of other benefits. I want to know how much they lose each year, numbers can easily be fudged in the accounting world, and if it's only a couple million . . . it is a worthwhile investment. (They also have some responsibility for not getting rid of the thugs sooner and nearly killing the franchise.) - As for the additional $15 million they want taxpayers to pay for, if they really lose more than a couple million every year, I would be willing to suspend their taxes for a couple years (giving them the claimed $8 million in revenue) and call it a day. If we could make the City of Detroit and Pistons fans to pay for half of it that would be better. Granted, I am a tainted Pacers fan, but Indy doesn't need Conseco to be empty most of the year. It does bring in money, and in a couple years during playoff wins it will increase. Boom baby. OK, I seem like the only Pacers fan on this site, and I am a HUGE fan. I’ve gone to over 20 games this year and have watched every game on TV except for two.
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First thing I would like to clarify is the statement by flipper: “If the Pacers leave. Maybe crime in Indy will drop another few percent.” Come on man, what else does the organization have to do? They got rid of Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, and have made a nearly unprecedented move of not playing Jamal Tinsely the entire season. He’s really not even on the team! It turned out Jermaine O’Neal had a bad attitude, he’s gone. All of the bad guys are gone. The “new Pacers” have not been in trouble one time all season, and they are a super group of guys, which is a nice change for Indy. Pacer teammates say this team has the best chemistry of any team they’ve ever been on. The record isn’t great, but they are the most consistent in the league and have the most close game losses. They don’t lose by a lot which means in a couple years they could be a contender again, and they are down by a couple games to get in the playoffs this season.
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All this being said, I think this is more about the Simons than the Pacers. The Simons get a lot of positive PR from the Pacers, free advertising for Simon Malls and other investments, and probably a bunch of other benefits. I want to know how much they lose each year, numbers can easily be fudged in the accounting world, and if it’s only a couple million . . . it is a worthwhile investment. (They also have some responsibility for not getting rid of the thugs sooner and nearly killing the franchise.)
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As for the additional $15 million they want taxpayers to pay for, if they really lose more than a couple million every year, I would be willing to suspend their taxes for a couple years (giving them the claimed $8 million in revenue) and call it a day. If we could make the City of Detroit and Pistons fans to pay for half of it that would be better. Granted, I am a tainted Pacers fan, but Indy doesn’t need Conseco to be empty most of the year. It does bring in money, and in a couple years during playoff wins it will increase. Boom baby.

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