One question taxpayers should have is with regard to the ownership of property (i.e. broadcast rights, logos, etc.) as it relates to public universities that are taxpayer subsidized. Taxpayers aren't getting a "return" on THEIR investment; "dividends" are instead paid to special interests.

Abbie,

Your missing the big picture. Most of during the 1950's-1990's viewed many sports on public TV, not cable/pay TV. Today, most basketball games, boxing, hockey, etc... are on some form of pay TV. Due to a variety of reasons, all sports has become increasing revenue driven. In turn, fewer fans. Most football games on Sunday will be pay (including internet) only to boost revenue.

If you look at the staffing levels of these venues, how many vice presidents do they actually need to run these facilities. If you look at the phone lists, you can see where the money goes.

Now that we have paid for the construction (which we didn't get to vote for), the continuing maintenance should appropriately be shouldered by those who exercise free will to attend.
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Free will...something that has been denied to Marion County and most of the surrounding counties.
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"Hats Off" to Morgan County !!!!!

Shore: You're quoting from New Hampshire's HCR (House Concurrent Resolution) 6 which was introduced into their statehouse in January. It is actually a bit more forceful than the Oklahoma Resolution from last year (passed 98-2 in their house, deadlocked in their senate) and very comparable in spirit to a resolution one of our own State Senators is considering introducing.
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Think Again: this kind of stuff is regularly reported at http://www.libertyfile.com/ and at the Indiana edition http://www.libertyfile.com/IN/
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Patriot Paul makes a very important point about things that should be private enterprise being undertaken by government who can then just pass the losses over as tax increases.
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Anyone do the math yet? Looking at the Colts only, around 60,000 tickets per game, 8 regular season games a PER TICKET tax of about $90 would clear out $43 million. But, $89 more per ticket might impact attendance so those revenues might not quite be something to bet the farm on.
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Excluding interest and inflation, if you just take $750 million and divide by 8 home games and 30 years (which the lease isn't even for I don't believe) you get around $52 per ticket in taxpayer subsidized costs. If you add in just $20 million per year in operating shortfall (again - unadjusted) that's another $600 million over 30 years. Add in interest and whoah... We're talking well over $100 per ticket that taxpayers subsidize.

I also agree with the ticket tax yet I think there are already two. One paid when you buy the ticket now and another that is a subsidized amount on each ticket paid by us the taxpayer.

How about a way to not only fix this issue but most of the issues in Marion County and our state. Require all not for profits in Indiana including church's but excluding government buildings that have a property value over $500,000 to pay full property taxes like all other business's in out state.

In regards to the Oil Can maybe an extra tax on the Lucas Suite and Irsay's pigskin flooring and $2000 toilet? I have been to one game and doubt I will go back.

Peace

It's a playground for the rich... So isn't it fitting that they should be the only ones who can afford to go? Let them pay their share, starting with Irsay.

Didn't some guy get arrested for hanging around the entrance gates to the Irsay palace awhile back?

Speaking of boards, capital or school; who'll "feed" the thugs, when Atlas shrugs?

Here is an idea. All city and county employees, except public safety are required to live in Marion County. How about all sports personnel including team owners, players and staff be required to live in Marion County and pay property tax locally.I'm sure this idea is wont fly, but what the hell.

Flipper...I think we'd look like specks on the sidewalk compared to the crowds who go to the game.
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I think the best place to rally for a protest is at Ir$say's house up in Carmel!

I'm already taxed for that oil can and I refuse to step foot in it. I don't think it is fair to ask anyone except those that directly enjoy it to continue to foot its bills.

Shore: WHRERE IN THE WORLD do you get this stuff?

Pascal: the topic is a ticket tax, which is a great idea, but you continue to swerve into the now-departed Daschle. For the record, let's get a fact or two on the table, something I'm sure you could use in regard to this case. As for Sen. D, here was his biggest problem:

Arrogance.

He was a Senate leader and liked the limos, the perks. When he became a big-time consultant (which is the first cousin of lobbyist), one of hs clients provided him a DC car and driver. Daschle did not report the driver's salary and the benefit of the car, as income. He should've. That is one perk I gaurantee you has lobbyists all over DC, and execs nationwide, scrambling this morning to amend prior returns.

To compensate, he took a hit for the entire car and salary, not just the time he used the car. So, he's honorable beyond most of the last administration in that regard.

But he's arrogant and out of touch to think that's the way the world works, so he should go. But he left honorably. No question about it.

Same result. Different paths.

Now, back to Ticklet Tax...

This should have been the plan from day one. If it raises the prices too high to attract fans, it'll prove that the stadium shouldn't have been built in the firt place. Which a lot of us knew from the moment the government began siphoning money from the taxpayers into private pockets.
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Off topic, New Hampshire has just issued a B-Slap to the federal government, in support of the US Constitution and the citizens of New Hampshire. I love it:
"That any Act by the Congress of the United States, Executive Order of the President of the United States of America or Judicial Order by the Judicatories of the United States of America which assumes a power not delegated to the government of United States of America by the Constitution for the United States of America and which serves to diminish the liberty of the any of the several States or their citizens shall constitute a nullification of the Constitution for the United States of America by the government of the United States of America. Acts which would cause such a nullification include, but are not limited to:
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I. Establishing martial law or a state of emergency within one of the States comprising the United States of America without the consent of the legislature of that State.
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II. Requiring involuntary servitude, or governmental service other than a draft during a declared war, or pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.
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III. Requiring involuntary servitude or governmental service of persons under the age of 18 other than pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.
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IV. Surrendering any power delegated or not delegated to any corporation or foreign government.
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V. Any act regarding religion; further limitations on freedom of political speech; or further limitations on freedom of the press.
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VI. Further infringements on the right to keep and bear arms including prohibitions of type or quantity of arms or ammunition; and
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That should any such act of Congress become law or Executive Order or Judicial Order be put into force, all powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States shall revert to the several States individually. Any future government of the United States of America shall require ratification of three quarters of the States seeking to form a government of the United States of America and shall not be binding upon any State not seeking to form such a government; and
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That copies of this resolution be transmitted by the house clerk to the President of the United States, each member of the United States Congress, and the presiding officers of each State’s legislature."
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/200...

On second thought, the idea that any member of the CIB had the public's interest at heart or in mind is laughable. So, the concept of honor would be foreign to them. I don't care what anyone of any Japanese heritage might think or feel. Any of them would understand the concept of honor. Why Think Again? Get it right the first time. So, no rallies, just going to send a love letter to our new Tax Cheat, thief, crook, and Secretary of the Treasury in charge of the IRS who shouldn't have a hard time finding an orange jump suit for their new boss....

Hey Melyssa,
How many activists do you think we could get at a Colts home game at Oil Can Stadium.
We all did pretty good last year with helping get Greg elected.

Oh, Pascal, if only you knew whereof you spoke...

And I'm pretty certain most folks of Japanese heritage would the slang reference.

Don't you have a rally to attend or something?

The old Japs had honor and when they screwed up they had a ritual for ending their lives with some semblence of honor. The CIB Board and Boards past should emulate that ritual or the Mayor should see that it is done by a firing squad. Tolerance is over rated. The would be Secretary of HEW ought to be wearing an orange jump suit already. The current Secretary of the Treasury is a tax crook, a cheat, a person of no honor. Why put up with losers?

Nick: I think you've hit the nail on the head. Although...everyone expected the Dome lease to generate more money. Times are tough all over.

Added taxes on the stadium ticketholders makes the most practical sense. A $6.50 beer is stupidly expensive...why not $7.50?

But please don't use this as an excuse to beat up on the pro sports teams in this city. I travel and recruit business all over the country. It is a feather in our cap to have professional teams. Whether it's worth the current cost--now that's a fair discussion.

I hope the Simons don't have to pay for the excesses of the stadium agreement. Because when you look around the nation at pro team owners, except for Green Bay, which is owned by the public--there is no finer example of local good ownership.

If only they'd have jumped all over the Pacers' lousy off-court antics sooner.

Since when is it the government's job to go into business for itself and bill back taxpayers for the loss,when it can't even get property taxes correct. The Sunday Star News article says the CIB has had a deficit since 1999. Market Sq.Arena debt was rolled into Conseco Field House, home of the multimillionaire thugs and the RCA Dome debt rolled into Lucas Oil. Yea, go ahead and jack up the ticket prices. If you're car doesn't get towed from White Castle, at least you can eat cheaply there compared to the Stadium's concession: cheeseburger 7.75, fries 4.00, reg.coke: 4.00, ttl: $15.75 (not exactly your average combo of 4.95) If we eat out in Marion and donut counties, don't forget to pay a compulsory restaurant tax for food(I digress).
solution: SELL these white elephants to private enterprise, take the loss, and be done with these money making schemes that extract dollars from us. Let private enterprise sell the tickets at fair market value. It's come down to this: would you rather try to keep your home from foreclosure, or keep the Sports facilities

Like many families we're Pacer & Colt fans. We do however, have a local, shining example of how it's done; the Hulman/ George family business. Nick's comment about public ownership is "on trend" in terms of the market for that idea, but it's contrary to lesser tendencies of protectionism or non-transferable insecurities within national sports leagues.

No real estate professional would ever sign a commercial lease agreement with a tenant that does not at least charge enough to cover the expenses of operating and maintaining the building.

Clearly Fred Glass and Bart Peterson did not follow this cardinal rule and wanted to subsidize Lucas Oil's operating losses to taxpayers with bank borrowings. Not a smart idea, and something Bart's family real estate company would have refused to sign.

Professional sports and entertainment is a business. If the Colts and Pacers want taxpayers to pick up all there expenses, then we should own the teams like Wisconsin's Green Bay Packers.

These facilities need to be financially self supporting and need to live up to the promises made to taxpayers to justify there construction.

Maybe this helps drive the question of how much does it cost us for the Colts or Pacers to walk away vs staying here? A couple of starting assumptions could be the teams aren't going to chip-in further & ticket sales will be down X% for Y length of time. Figure a third for 18 mos? Dunno. Plug the figures in, compare the two options, & maybe we make progress? Having to have one or both teams to be "World-class" has degenerated from impractical to madness. "World-class" now is to be a city with enough police on the streets and a graduation rate that's not rivaling Detroit.

Again, I agree with Think Again. When this boondoogle was going up people were extolling the benefits of having a new stadium and the Colts remain in the city at the expense to the rest of us. Well now it's time for those same people to put up AND shut up. Put an user fee on season ticket holders, hot dogs, pretzels, parking fees, beers, cokes, and everything else, just not me any more. I've had enough!!

One has to question why Pat Earley and Bob Grand would agree to have taxpayers take on an additional $15 million in Pacer operating expenses when CIB already has a $20+ million annual operating deficit with the Colts contract.

Kenley is the smartest one in the room by saying lawmakers need to look at whether the Colts, Pacers and Indians are paying their fair share.

Raising ticket prices will only decrease demand and drive down attendance and revenue.

Maybe a tax on the high paid players or getting a reasonable contract with the Colts on Lucas Oil Stadium is the correct path.

These sports facilities can not continue to operate at a loss to taxpayers or CIB will be forced to declare bankruptcy.

Since the blame game has not yet begun, I will actually say something surprising, given my Democratic proclivities.

This one is not on Ballard (although it's his problem to solve). This one is totally on the State (Governor, legislature and Stadium Authority.)

They knew full well about this shortfall when the bill was passed and did nothing. My sneaking suspicion is that the State thought Bart Peterson would be in office when this bomb exploded, but he's not. So it's their problem now...again.

Brilliant. The users of the facility would pay, not the rest of us.