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	<title>Comments on: Moratorium Movement</title>
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	<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html</link>
	<description>Indiana Barrister is the source for local Indianapolis and Indiana news, politics and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: Jon G</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19370</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19370</guid>
		<description>I live in IPS district and I don&#039;t have kids in the public school system for just the reasons Juno writes about above.  Despite what Al Gore says, the parents are the most important key to childrens education.  Since the government says children must go to school and they run the public schools they are second in line to parents, which is a great responsiblity.  Juno is right about the teachers, there are good ones and there are bad ones just like in any profession but that doesn&#039;t excuse the system for letting them continue to teach children ......Oh, I forgot about the union...and the legislature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in IPS district and I don&#8217;t have kids in the public school system for just the reasons Juno writes about above.  Despite what Al Gore says, the parents are the most important key to childrens education.  Since the government says children must go to school and they run the public schools they are second in line to parents, which is a great responsiblity.  Juno is right about the teachers, there are good ones and there are bad ones just like in any profession but that doesn&#8217;t excuse the system for letting them continue to teach children &#8230;&#8230;Oh, I forgot about the union&#8230;and the legislature.</p>
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		<title>By: Juno</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19366</link>
		<dc:creator>Juno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19366</guid>
		<description>Varangianguard,

Before you jump on Angry Taxpayer too hard, I&#039;d like to know if you have children in a public school?  I have e-mailed teachers and administrators and never gotten a response, met with individual teachers and vice principals only to be rudely treated like I was the biggest bother in the world, talked to rude and dismissive staff, etc.  TA is right ... most of them really don&#039;t care about anything but a check, just like most governmental employees, which they are.  They act every bit of it, too.

Tell me, why do you think it is that people with multiple degrees cannot teach in public schools without a teaching license?  Why is it that teachers are not routinely given tests like ISTEP or GMATS to check their competence?  The system is gamed to avoid competition or insure competency, and it shows.

It is very unfair to charge parents who try to do right by their kids with blame-shifting or laying down on the job under these circumstances.  After people are charged out the _ss to pay the property taxes that support these failed systems most find themselves unable to afford a private alternative.  I have to agree with Abdul on at least one point.  If these systems are so great, EVERY CHILD, no matter who their parents are or how wealthy, MUST attend public schools.  Then you might actually see meaningful change when their own kids are being sacrificed on the governmental alter that returns/retains these incompetent SOBs to/in office. It is impossible to be &quot;responsible&quot;                 for your child&#039;s rearing when government is hell bent and determined to interfere and sabotage everything you try to accomplish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Varangianguard,</p>
<p>Before you jump on Angry Taxpayer too hard, I&#8217;d like to know if you have children in a public school?  I have e-mailed teachers and administrators and never gotten a response, met with individual teachers and vice principals only to be rudely treated like I was the biggest bother in the world, talked to rude and dismissive staff, etc.  TA is right &#8230; most of them really don&#8217;t care about anything but a check, just like most governmental employees, which they are.  They act every bit of it, too.</p>
<p>Tell me, why do you think it is that people with multiple degrees cannot teach in public schools without a teaching license?  Why is it that teachers are not routinely given tests like ISTEP or GMATS to check their competence?  The system is gamed to avoid competition or insure competency, and it shows.</p>
<p>It is very unfair to charge parents who try to do right by their kids with blame-shifting or laying down on the job under these circumstances.  After people are charged out the _ss to pay the property taxes that support these failed systems most find themselves unable to afford a private alternative.  I have to agree with Abdul on at least one point.  If these systems are so great, EVERY CHILD, no matter who their parents are or how wealthy, MUST attend public schools.  Then you might actually see meaningful change when their own kids are being sacrificed on the governmental alter that returns/retains these incompetent SOBs to/in office. It is impossible to be &#8220;responsible&#8221;                 for your child&#8217;s rearing when government is hell bent and determined to interfere and sabotage everything you try to accomplish.</p>
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		<title>By: varangianguard</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19347</link>
		<dc:creator>varangianguard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19347</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s one key Angry T, private schools and charter schools can kick kids out. Where do you think they go then? Home?
.
Teachers aren&#039;t &quot;failures&quot; at other professions. They have degrees in their chosen field - education.
.
If teachers are frustrated, it&#039;s because of people like you who are overly simplistic in their criticisms, not supported by their own administrators, and held accountable for the outrageous behavior of some children who act just like their parent(s). 
.
Just because you pay a few hundred bucks in taxes does not give you the right to drop your end of the bargain when raising your children. Public schools are expected to be babysitters, charm schools and feeding stations on top of the expectation that your children will be taught letters, counting, handwriting, basic science, social studies, and better language than too many of them hear at home.
. 
Bottom line. Who needs to be responsible for the children? The parent(s). Everything else would be so much more straightforward after that, no matter what kind of system of schools were used.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s one key Angry T, private schools and charter schools can kick kids out. Where do you think they go then? Home?<br />
.<br />
Teachers aren&#8217;t &#8220;failures&#8221; at other professions. They have degrees in their chosen field &#8211; education.<br />
.<br />
If teachers are frustrated, it&#8217;s because of people like you who are overly simplistic in their criticisms, not supported by their own administrators, and held accountable for the outrageous behavior of some children who act just like their parent(s).<br />
.<br />
Just because you pay a few hundred bucks in taxes does not give you the right to drop your end of the bargain when raising your children. Public schools are expected to be babysitters, charm schools and feeding stations on top of the expectation that your children will be taught letters, counting, handwriting, basic science, social studies, and better language than too many of them hear at home.<br />
.<br />
Bottom line. Who needs to be responsible for the children? The parent(s). Everything else would be so much more straightforward after that, no matter what kind of system of schools were used.</p>
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		<title>By: Angry Taxpayer</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19346</link>
		<dc:creator>Angry Taxpayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 09:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19346</guid>
		<description>The ISTA contributes big bucks to legislators campaign funds.  This union protects in- compotent and unqualified teachers in the classrooms.  Many of these teachers failed in other professions and are using their degrees to be recognized as professionals. Many are frustrated and some don&#039;t like children. If Johnnie or Suzy can&#039;t read by 6th grade, or can&#039;t add 2 plus 2, who do you blame?  6 years of teachers in public schools and they assume no responsibility for failing our students.  Yet, they blame the parents who are being taxed to pay their salaries. A majority of these legislators send their children and grandchildren to private schools where discipline is allowed and high academic achievement is ecouraged and maintained or the school will kick the kid out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ISTA contributes big bucks to legislators campaign funds.  This union protects in- compotent and unqualified teachers in the classrooms.  Many of these teachers failed in other professions and are using their degrees to be recognized as professionals. Many are frustrated and some don&#8217;t like children. If Johnnie or Suzy can&#8217;t read by 6th grade, or can&#8217;t add 2 plus 2, who do you blame?  6 years of teachers in public schools and they assume no responsibility for failing our students.  Yet, they blame the parents who are being taxed to pay their salaries. A majority of these legislators send their children and grandchildren to private schools where discipline is allowed and high academic achievement is ecouraged and maintained or the school will kick the kid out.</p>
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		<title>By: pascal</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19306</link>
		<dc:creator>pascal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19306</guid>
		<description>Why not just question the whole enterprise of government schools. First,go to Liberty Fund and get E.G. West&#039;s, Education and the State.  Read it before opening your mouth.  Learn that government schools have a history, sordid as it is, and they have been lying ever since. Cathedral schools have been with us since the 1200&#039;s-there isn&#039;t much new about instruction. What is relatively new, is the government schools of which there is no current need, past need, or future need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not just question the whole enterprise of government schools. First,go to Liberty Fund and get E.G. West&#8217;s, Education and the State.  Read it before opening your mouth.  Learn that government schools have a history, sordid as it is, and they have been lying ever since. Cathedral schools have been with us since the 1200&#8217;s-there isn&#8217;t much new about instruction. What is relatively new, is the government schools of which there is no current need, past need, or future need.</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer 834512</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19284</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer 834512</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19284</guid>
		<description>Thanks Robert &amp; intelligent suggestion, Vguard.  As staunchly politicized as education is, you&#039;d have to get not only both parties, but experienced laymen so recommendations and the write-up aren&#039;t protecting turf (I can dream) and  written in Educratese.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Robert &amp; intelligent suggestion, Vguard.  As staunchly politicized as education is, you&#8217;d have to get not only both parties, but experienced laymen so recommendations and the write-up aren&#8217;t protecting turf (I can dream) and  written in Educratese.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert-NW Side</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19283</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert-NW Side</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19283</guid>
		<description>-
Taxpayer 834512, you can design your own bumper sticker online.  Below is a link, but you can Google &quot;make bumper sticker&quot; (without quotes).  
-
http://www.makestickers.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-<br />
Taxpayer 834512, you can design your own bumper sticker online.  Below is a link, but you can Google &#8220;make bumper sticker&#8221; (without quotes).<br />
-<br />
<a href="http://www.makestickers.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.makestickers.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: varangianguard</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19282</link>
		<dc:creator>varangianguard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19282</guid>
		<description>All this post shows is that it isn&#039;t the kids who matter (as usual), but instead this or that adult&#039;s agenda (or ego). Another good reason to support the moratorium on charter schools.
This country needs its own Kernan-Shepherd report on education. Then perhaps, we could have a rational debate about how to go about really educating our young citizens-to-be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this post shows is that it isn&#8217;t the kids who matter (as usual), but instead this or that adult&#8217;s agenda (or ego). Another good reason to support the moratorium on charter schools.<br />
This country needs its own Kernan-Shepherd report on education. Then perhaps, we could have a rational debate about how to go about really educating our young citizens-to-be.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon G</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19279</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 05:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19279</guid>
		<description>Right on Taxpayer!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on Taxpayer!!</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer 834512</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/02/moratorium_movement.html/comment-page-1#comment-19278</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer 834512</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 04:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1660#comment-19278</guid>
		<description>Re Sean&#039;s post #7- Yes, precisely.  With OR without Charter Schools: &quot;the legislature put the teachers union ahead of students and learning.&quot;  They definitely don&#039;t care about education or they&#039;d pursue root problems and solutions instead of posturing for the reelection dollars.  If Muslim taxi drivers or Russian cafeteria workers could donate like teacher&#039;s unions, Buddy, you wouldn&#039;t believe how fast we&#039;d see legislation for massive foot bath installation and passionate hand-wringing over the virtues of potato dumplings (to hell with the sugar cream pie).  
.
I&#039;ve given up on a WXNT-Abdul bumper sticker.  I&#039;ll settle for, &quot;INDIANA:  The Best State Legislature Money Can Buy&quot;.  Where can I get that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Sean&#8217;s post #7- Yes, precisely.  With OR without Charter Schools: &#8220;the legislature put the teachers union ahead of students and learning.&#8221;  They definitely don&#8217;t care about education or they&#8217;d pursue root problems and solutions instead of posturing for the reelection dollars.  If Muslim taxi drivers or Russian cafeteria workers could donate like teacher&#8217;s unions, Buddy, you wouldn&#8217;t believe how fast we&#8217;d see legislation for massive foot bath installation and passionate hand-wringing over the virtues of potato dumplings (to hell with the sugar cream pie).<br />
.<br />
I&#8217;ve given up on a WXNT-Abdul bumper sticker.  I&#8217;ll settle for, &#8220;INDIANA:  The Best State Legislature Money Can Buy&#8221;.  Where can I get that?</p>
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