Comments on: Monday Morning Musings http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html Indiana Barrister is the source for local Indianapolis and Indiana news, politics and commentary. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:17:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Greg http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18153 Greg Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:29:02 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18153 T.A. I am not an expert on this subject, just enought information to be dangerous. In your note above, you are actually referring to three distinct categories. One. Political. They are given a 6 pointed star and generally undergo little to no training. These are, or have been, for the politically connected. Usually used to get out of trouble type badge. Only a fool would use one in a real situation. Two. Special Deputies. Again, a 6 point star and they do go through 300 or 400 hours of training, but do not have arrest authority or powers outside their direct assignments (usually crowd control, jail, traffic control, jail wagon drivers etc). The third group, and the one referenced in the above posts are Reserve Officers. They, before moving to IMPD, carried a 5 point star and underwent exactly the same training as all Merit officers. The primary difference was that all merit went through ILEA (Indiana Law Enforcement Accademy) whereas the reserves went through exactly the same curriculum only on site at the sheriff's training facility. As for car training and firearms training they go through exactly the same as merits. The only non merit officers that I am aware of who are assigned street duty are the Reserves, not the special deputies and certainly not the political loons carrying badges. To your point about them being a source of irritation, I am sure that is true from time to time. In a perfect world, I suppose you would say that only Merit Officers should be on the street. I suppose in a perfect world, we would say that only career military should protect us. Alas, we don't live in a perfect world financially. So, to me, the key is to value their willingness to serve, and certainly to ensure that the training and assessments they receive are identical. Now, regarding politics in the sheriffs department.....well, we would not have enough time to even get into this topic. Peace. T.A. I am not an expert on this subject, just enought information to be dangerous. In your note above, you are actually referring to three distinct categories. One. Political. They are given a 6 pointed star and generally undergo little to no training. These are, or have been, for the politically connected. Usually used to get out of trouble type badge. Only a fool would use one in a real situation. Two. Special Deputies. Again, a 6 point star and they do go through 300 or 400 hours of training, but do not have arrest authority or powers outside their direct assignments (usually crowd control, jail, traffic control, jail wagon drivers etc). The third group, and the one referenced in the above posts are Reserve Officers. They, before moving to IMPD, carried a 5 point star and underwent exactly the same training as all Merit officers. The primary difference was that all merit went through ILEA (Indiana Law Enforcement Accademy) whereas the reserves went through exactly the same curriculum only on site at the sheriff’s training facility. As for car training and firearms training they go through exactly the same as merits. The only non merit officers that I am aware of who are assigned street duty are the Reserves, not the special deputies and certainly not the political loons carrying badges.
To your point about them being a source of irritation, I am sure that is true from time to time. In a perfect world, I suppose you would say that only Merit Officers should be on the street. I suppose in a perfect world, we would say that only career military should protect us. Alas, we don’t live in a perfect world financially. So, to me, the key is to value their willingness to serve, and certainly to ensure that the training and assessments they receive are identical.
Now, regarding politics in the sheriffs department…..well, we would not have enough time to even get into this topic. Peace.

]]> By: Think Again http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18151 Think Again Tue, 06 Jan 2009 03:06:27 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18151 This is all interesting...but reserves have been a source of constant irritation, as well as much-needed backup from time to time. It's a delicate balance. Greg: you might be correct for most reserve officers. I only know two very well at all. They are both well-connected politically, and neither of them had very much training at all. One was not even asked if he could fire a gun, or offered firearms training, and he jokes about that sad fact. He began under Cottey, and remains on IMPD today. I'm not sure how he handled the transition from Sheriff-IMPD, but he did. I'm also aware that the sheriff had special deputies all over creation and got burned on it a few years ago. All the school police, for instance, except IPS, were special deputies. (IPS's police are recognized by state law as regular police) Some of the township officers were acting like fools, and he called them all in and scolded them, threatened them, etc. One, who was a township school policeman (Pike or Washington, I think), took chase after someone a few years back (maybe 2004-5?) and his lack of training showed: he t-boned an old woman's car, which killed her. THe victim was not aprt of the chase, and the officer was not using proper procedure. The sheriff had his EO, Kevin Murray, tell all the school superintendents, in writing, that their officers would not have special deputy status unlness they completed much more training. There may be other shenanigans, and I'm not FA fan, but this story is true--I saw the letter Murray sent. It was scathing. This is all interesting…but reserves have been a source of constant irritation, as well as much-needed backup from time to time. It’s a delicate balance.

Greg: you might be correct for most reserve officers. I only know two very well at all. They are both well-connected politically, and neither of them had very much training at all. One was not even asked if he could fire a gun, or offered firearms training, and he jokes about that sad fact. He began under Cottey, and remains on IMPD today. I’m not sure how he handled the transition from Sheriff-IMPD, but he did.

I’m also aware that the sheriff had special deputies all over creation and got burned on it a few years ago. All the school police, for instance, except IPS, were special deputies. (IPS’s police are recognized by state law as regular police) Some of the township officers were acting like fools, and he called them all in and scolded them, threatened them, etc. One, who was a township school policeman (Pike or Washington, I think), took chase after someone a few years back (maybe 2004-5?) and his lack of training showed: he t-boned an old woman’s car, which killed her. THe victim was not aprt of the chase, and the officer was not using proper procedure. The sheriff had his EO, Kevin Murray, tell all the school superintendents, in writing, that their officers would not have special deputy status unlness they completed much more training.

There may be other shenanigans, and I’m not FA fan, but this story is true–I saw the letter Murray sent. It was scathing.

]]> By: garry moore http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18149 garry moore Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:42:23 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18149 statler, rolley is an impd reserve police officer. the sheriff does not have police officers, they have special deputies, and yes he could do both statler, rolley is an impd reserve police officer. the sheriff does not have police officers, they have special deputies, and yes he could do both

]]> By: garry moore http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18148 garry moore Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:39:59 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18148 brad bentley, rolley has in fact been given a take home car because he decided to remain as an unpaid impd reserve officer. this is a small token for putting his life on the line. he was not given a motorcycle, your information is wrong there. and further he is applying for a job, but as of now doesn't have it. thanks for watching his back for him..... brad bentley, rolley has in fact been given a take home car because he decided to remain as an unpaid impd reserve officer. this is a small token for putting his life on the line. he was not given a motorcycle, your information is wrong there. and further he is applying for a job, but as of now doesn’t have it. thanks for watching his back for him…..

]]> By: Sean Shepard http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18147 Sean Shepard Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:09:03 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18147 Thanks for the clarification Greg. I had always wondered and never thought to ask an officer when the opportunity arose, plus would worry they might take some offense to the question. And I completely understand the point you made regarding the volume of small crimes, the market for stolen items and likelihood of every recovering anything. We didn't have anything taken, but were still surprised they didn't try to take any prints or anything just to pop them in a database and associate them with the report. They do have a nearly impossible job sometimes. Regards. Thanks for the clarification Greg. I had always wondered and never thought to ask an officer when the opportunity arose, plus would worry they might take some offense to the question.

And I completely understand the point you made regarding the volume of small crimes, the market for stolen items and likelihood of every recovering anything. We didn’t have anything taken, but were still surprised they didn’t try to take any prints or anything just to pop them in a database and associate them with the report. They do have a nearly impossible job sometimes.

Regards.

]]> By: StatlerNWaldorf http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18146 StatlerNWaldorf Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:49:05 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18146 Greg hits the nail on the head. Reserves go through the same training as merit officers do, it just takes longer to do it because they also have to work a full time job during training. - Brad (if that really is you), does it really surprise you that Sheriff Bling-Bling would go for the more expensive vehicles? I mean, he gave a contract to Payton Wells at MUCH more than State Bid was. And as far as Ferguson being on IMPD as a reserve and working for the Sheriff as well, how could he do that? When the Mayor took the police back from Bling, that effectively made them 2 seperate departments again. If I am not mistaken an officer in the state of Indiana MAY NOT hold credentials from 2 different departments. Greg hits the nail on the head. Reserves go through the same training as merit officers do, it just takes longer to do it because they also have to work a full time job during training.
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Brad (if that really is you), does it really surprise you that Sheriff Bling-Bling would go for the more expensive vehicles? I mean, he gave a contract to Payton Wells at MUCH more than State Bid was. And as far as Ferguson being on IMPD as a reserve and working for the Sheriff as well, how could he do that? When the Mayor took the police back from Bling, that effectively made them 2 seperate departments again. If I am not mistaken an officer in the state of Indiana MAY NOT hold credentials from 2 different departments.

]]> By: Greg http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18145 Greg Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:37:02 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18145 Sean, to your second point. It is unfortunate, but they have pretty firm rules regarding when lights and sirens can be used. Generally, it is only when there is imminent threat to persons where they can be used (i.e. crash with personal injury, 911 calls where life is in danger etc. All other dispatches, the majority, are for non life threatening situations. They are expected to get there in a hurry, but are not allowed to use lights and sirens. Puts officers on the spot. Some can handle this in a mature response, others cannot. You never know when you see the police car speed by if they are headed to lunch, or likely, to a non life threatening call where they are trying to get there quickly (i.e. alarm going off at a business or private residence). I too have found IMPD to be helpful. However, in todays world, almost all personal property damage etc. is a report run, and not one where I expect they will recover items. Not enough resources, and too many people in the community linked to backyard markets in stolen goods. Sad, but this is the world we live in. Sean, to your second point. It is unfortunate, but they have pretty firm rules regarding when lights and sirens can be used. Generally, it is only when there is imminent threat to persons where they can be used (i.e. crash with personal injury, 911 calls where life is in danger etc. All other dispatches, the majority, are for non life threatening situations. They are expected to get there in a hurry, but are not allowed to use lights and sirens. Puts officers on the spot. Some can handle this in a mature response, others cannot. You never know when you see the police car speed by if they are headed to lunch, or likely, to a non life threatening call where they are trying to get there quickly (i.e. alarm going off at a business or private residence).
I too have found IMPD to be helpful. However, in todays world, almost all personal property damage etc. is a report run, and not one where I expect they will recover items. Not enough resources, and too many people in the community linked to backyard markets in stolen goods. Sad, but this is the world we live in.

]]> By: Brad Bentley http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18144 Brad Bentley Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:20:09 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18144 Abdul, I heard the Sheriff has purchased several Dodge Chargers? These cars cost about $5000.00 more than the Crown Victoria. Why is he wasting money on more expensive cars? Also, I heard that retired IMPD Officer Rolley Ferguson has decided to stay with IMPD as a reserve officer. He has been given a take home car and a motorcycle. I guess the sheriff has also given him a job at MCSD and gave him a take home car and a motorcycle? If this is true Rolley will have 4 City/County owned vehicles. Another waste of resources! Abdul, I heard the Sheriff has purchased several Dodge Chargers? These cars cost about $5000.00 more than the Crown Victoria. Why is he wasting money on more expensive cars? Also, I heard that retired IMPD Officer Rolley Ferguson has decided to stay with IMPD as a reserve officer. He has been given a take home car and a motorcycle. I guess the sheriff has also given him a job at MCSD and gave him a take home car and a motorcycle? If this is true Rolley will have 4 City/County owned vehicles. Another waste of resources!

]]> By: Sean Shepard http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18143 Sean Shepard Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:19:12 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18143 @ Greg. Good comments. Although, I we need to petition Abdul to fix the comments section so it picks up line breaks properly. @ Daw-G ... I do too since some of the time they like to pull right up on your bumper like you're not violating the speed limit enough and are in their way. Aren't they supposed to have their lights on if on a run? Seriously, just asking (not specific to the recent accident involving the pedestrian - certainly no harm was intended, just thinking more in general when they're exceeding the posted speed limits with their lights off). It's just always bugged me. To be fair, I've found IMPD to be very helpful and respectful the past few years. Although, I was shocked they didn't take fingerprints off the CDs in my wife's car after it was broken into about a year ago. Small-time stuff, nothing taken, but I gotta think prints would show up really well on one of those. @ Greg. Good comments. Although, I we need to petition Abdul to fix the comments section so it picks up line breaks properly.

@ Daw-G … I do too since some of the time they like to pull right up on your bumper like you’re not violating the speed limit enough and are in their way.

Aren’t they supposed to have their lights on if on a run? Seriously, just asking (not specific to the recent accident involving the pedestrian – certainly no harm was intended, just thinking more in general when they’re exceeding the posted speed limits with their lights off). It’s just always bugged me.

To be fair, I’ve found IMPD to be very helpful and respectful the past few years. Although, I was shocked they didn’t take fingerprints off the CDs in my wife’s car after it was broken into about a year ago. Small-time stuff, nothing taken, but I gotta think prints would show up really well on one of those.

]]> By: Melyssa http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/01/monday_morning_musings-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-18142 Melyssa Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:05:25 +0000 http://www.indianabarrister.com/?p=1586#comment-18142 We need to hear from Ed Coleman on this issue. How many meetings did he miss? How many meetings were missed by others who are on committees? That's the first thing I would want to know. Also, if he missed meetings, what was the reason? There might be good reason. . I do know that Ed Coleman is outspoken against insider political elite dealings within the Republican party and that a lot of people (myself included) love him for it. . Ogdon on Politics blog has more on the subject of Ed Coleman and his being pulled from committees, while Ryan Vaughn (recently employed by Barnes & Thornburg) is picking up a great deal of influence. . Makes you go "huh", doesn't it? We need to hear from Ed Coleman on this issue. How many meetings did he miss? How many meetings were missed by others who are on committees? That’s the first thing I would want to know. Also, if he missed meetings, what was the reason? There might be good reason.
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I do know that Ed Coleman is outspoken against insider political elite dealings within the Republican party and that a lot of people (myself included) love him for it.
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Ogdon on Politics blog has more on the subject of Ed Coleman and his being pulled from committees, while Ryan Vaughn (recently employed by Barnes & Thornburg) is picking up a great deal of influence.
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Makes you go “huh”, doesn’t it?

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