Mauri - your comments are very much appreciated. Your examples point to two specific issues that I have - welfare and federally funded public schools (grants etc).
Welfare removes the community sense of responsibility and desrie to take care of the less fortunate. I love the stories of helping each other out. It's the salt of humanity. Our increasingly socialized process removes the dignity, compassion, and community bonds that used to exist.
As for schools, the mass influx of Federal programs and requirements that municipalities must meet in order to get their "bribe" money are a deteriment to every fine young American child who attends in hopes of becoming a success in life. Back in your day, there were no programs designed to replace education with indoctrination. Today, the socialists who implement federal education policy are concerned with generating a society of followers rather than a community of free thinking individuals.
Kinder, gentler time is an understatement. Get ready for much worse, my friend. I spent yesterday updating myself on the more recent policy recommendations of Obama's closest advisors. Very dark days are ahead.

Abdul,Shorebreak, Mike L., and Greg. I sense by your writing, that I grew up a gemeration or two ahead of you guys. My father and grandfather ran grocerty stores in a town northeast of Indy 60 yrs or more ago. My father created the first "supermarket" in that town and I sure as hell did work in it.!!! These two men were and still are my heroes. They gained the respect of their peers by their deeds. Enough said about my past. I can remember delivering food to person who weer "on the dole" as it was called in that
day. The foods they got were mostly beans, cornbread, and fatback(pork). Dad would say, "take some apples and oranges to them too" even if the "chits"(Trustee poor relief) didn't cover the cost. That was how society took care of its' least "lucky" participants. The the social progressives took control and all hell broke loose. It ain't the same nowadays. !!! Now about schools. I had the "creme de la creme" of teachers when I was going to public school. A large part of that was because my parents supported the PTA and the "neighborhood" school system. I was fortunate to have had some of the most dedicated teachers ever. Two of whom , Julia and Jesse sisters and "old Maid" school teachers taught me well. Julia taught mathmatics with a steel slide rule and Jesse aught english and the written word with a velvet touch that was magnificient They made it possible for me to succeed at Purdue later on. Well so much for a kinder gentlier time.

School vouchers are just another way to siphon $ to the wealthy. It is no answer to our failing public schools, which are the exception, not the rule. Most schools do just fine. BTW, Catholic school educations have been traditionally been subsidized by the local church, not exactly a free-market approach.
When we decide that everyone should have a H.S. diploma, we assume that everyone has the requisite drive and intellect to attain such letters. This just ain't the case. In order to meet our (admirable) goal, we lower the standard so all can graduate thus diminishing the value of a H.S. degree. In my opinion, if one doesn't have the motivation to do passing work, they ought not recieve the diploma. I am a case in point. In the 1970's (when I was in school) all one had to do was attend and one passed. I attended, but mostly slept during class (due to an 8 hour job and a lot of extra-curricular chemistry experiments). I was shocked when I was mailed a diploma. I most certainly did not deserve it.
It wasn't the school's fault I didn't learn, it was mine. (I later got a B.S. & J.D., but only when I really wanted it.) My mother has been involved in education her entire working life & she'll tell you the same thing about the system although she also faults parents for not inculcating a respect for education in their kids.
Also note that the ex-communist countries have produced much better educated students in their primary & secondary schools. Why? Because if you didn't measure up, you were shunted-off to a trade. No big secret about it, when expectations are low, results are too.
At the turn of the 20th century a H.S. diploma meant something. In the latter half, a college degree meant something. The equivalent now is a Masters or above.
There is no magical reason for the free-market to do something better than the government. Merit-based pay is all it takes. That's all the free-market can offer, except the gov. doesn't have to give a return to the stockholders and should therefore (all things being equal) be able to return the same results at a lower cost.(Note the operating expense ratio of the S.S. fund v. any free-market fund) Government programs work quite well when honest people are in office. When we elect officials who belive that "government is the problem," they make damn sure that government is a problem. When we elect officials that make government work for us, we tend to get better results.
There is no magic in the cruel genius of the free-market, we just need to apply the same reward system in our public services.

Sorry, Abdul, but the whole voucher system is part of the problem. If tax money can be used for tuition to private schools, what incentive exists to improve the public schools? They are tax-funded, so they don't need to "compete" -- they just go ask for more money. They just did it, and we gave it to them, even though they're closing six of the schools our taxes will be increased to "upgrade". So we taxpayers pay for the ever-declining public schools, AND we're paying for private schools via vouchers. And the quality public education our founders envisioned, available to ALL children, regardless of their ability to pay, slips farther into obscurity.

The thought of the Wayne Township Trustee having ANYTHING to do with the education of our children is really scary!!

Abdul: before I forget, talk with Jennifer about bringing back "Taking Down Words". Her new site is Booooooooooooring!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, couldn't Julia's clothing vouchers only be used at a shop she owned, or was that racket dreamed up by the current trustee?

What is all this with poor relief? I can answer these issues with three words.
* GET A JOB *

Greg,

I meant to say I agree with all of your post also

Greg,

For the record I do not mind the U.S. having a welfare system. I much rather pay into that then into some of the other things my taxes go for i.e. overflated Defense budget.

With that said. I believe that in order to receive welfare there should be stipulations.

1. Community service participation
2. Minimum school achievement for all kids in the household. You will be surprised how many kids start to excel in school if mommies check is tied to their achievement
2a. Mandatory school participation by parents

Yes, but this is the elephant in the room that no one wants to acknowledge without being called racist or elitist. I challenge anyone to show a high density population area where the people rely primarily on government assistance that have anything close to traditional family structures, responsibilities and accountabilities. The class warfare funded by government handouts is at the root of these ills, and crazy enough, this will continue to be the solution of choice. This model is broken and needs to be replaced by requirements for those receiving government assistance to deliver some service to society that provides them a sense of self-worth. With self-worth comes pride in family and with pride in family comes an environment that will produce better students. Dealing with the production line mentality of todays public education is yet another issue, and as well can be addressed with ever increasing standards and, as shorebreak suggests, new models in delivery and expectations. It is amazing with happens when people know that they are required to reach higher.

Agreed, Mike.

Shorebreak,

I never said the public schools in the city were fine.

I stated that government run schools are not the issue.

There is a huge difference between the two statements.

I noted the NCs, Carmels, Avons and Fishers as examples along with most of the townships schools.

My grind was with people who try to use IPS as a example of why government schools are failures. Without acknowledging there are alot more successful public schools graduating kids then there are unsuccessful.

Now if you want to talk about changing the curriculum of publics schools by all means make that arguement. Heck I will probably agree with you on alot of it.

But to state that government schools are failing because IPS has it issues I think is a false statement.

Mike Lowery,
You can't compare failing IPS schools to schools in Carmel and Fishers, and then use that to say that the public schools in those cities are fine. No offense intended, but it's a disingenuous argument.
.
I'll give you a very brief personal example. I attended private schools for 11 of 12 years. My senior year I attended a public school - the best one in my metropolitan area of about 1.5 million people at that time. In the best area of a city that had 10,000 millionaires at that time - and that was before the dot-com boom.
.
In comparison to my private school classes, that public school was the next closest thing to a baby sitter. Most testing was multiple choice, teachers gave hints during testing, there were "pre-tests" the day before exams, etc, etc. It was like moving from a learning environment into a production machine that was designed to move us through - and out of - the system.
.
I had one teacher who stood out as an actual "teacher". Senior english. The only teacher who actually challenged us, and the only one I achieved a straight "A" with that year - he held my interest. His methodology was to introduce a new controversial topic each Monday morning. Students would choose a side and move their desks to that side. As the debate evolved, you would often switch sides mid-week as you defined and understood the topic. The assignement was an essay due each Monday morning on the previous weeks topic. The essays were graded throughout the week, during which the teacher gave individual feedback and instruction as the debate moved forward.
.
That was 20 years ago. I learned just last month that my former teacher was fired the next year for refusing to follow the school boards recommended format.
.
That was a supposedly stellar public school with an impeccable record. yet their curriculum and teaching style was directed more towards effectively moving traffic rather than effectively educating students to be critical thinkers, individual achievers, and effective leaders.
.
Was it a good education? Statistically speaking, yes it was. It was excellent. But in contrast to a decent private school, it was fair at best. World history, geography, and political science were foreign concepts. Multiple choice was the testing method. The highets mathematical expectation was basic geometry. And I've recently learned that the one teacher who effectively taught was removed for not following the sub-standards.
.
That's just one man's opinion, but I had to throw it out there. Just because Carmel and Fishers schools are better than IPS doesn't make them good schools.

Government schools are not the problem here. Education is a matter of Parental responsibility.

Indiana children can already opt out of failing schools and choose to go to a school of their choice. My brother is a teacher so I hear about it first hand.

You can't complain about how horrible government schools are and just use IPS as your evidence and fail to mention that the Carmels, North Centrals, Zionsvilles, Avons of the state are also public schools.
It seems as if government schools are doing just fine in those cases.

Even at most of the township schools the majority of the kids can get a quality education. Most of the schools do have Advance programs for the students who apply themselves. That is all you can ask of a school. For the kids to at least have the option to better themselves.


IPS can put all the money it wants into the schools. But if the situation at home does not change for those kids then achievement gap will remain the same.

Majority of those kids do not have the basic needs that most of us take for granted. Not making a excuse just stating facts.

It is pretty hard to care about your ABC's and 123s if you don't have any heat and the only meal you receive is at school.

"Government designed autos"....hmmmmm. You know it might be that the same people who GOT US TO THE MOON may be able to design a fuel efficient car. Maybe we should try it.

I don't think it is a bad idea to use poor relief money for educational purposes such as school vouchers. But for godsake don't put it into the hands of township trustees. This is the most corrupt, anachronistic and unfair bunch of political hacks you will ever see. They just need to go away. Poor relief can be accomplished through a general assistance program run by the Office of Family & Children in each county. And no one needs to "oversee" the poor anymore.

School vouchers are a bankrupt idea promoted by people who have no other way to influence something that probably isn't their business in the first place (former Mayor Peterson?).

Want to influence the education system? Run for School Board. Become a Superintendent. Volunteer.

Abdul,

Every now and then you hit on a good idea. If we have to have them they just as well be putting that money to good use instead of some relatives pocket.

No school wants IDOE help if it leads to IPS sorts of results. Government schools ARE the problem and government can't fix anything at a cost anyone would want to pay. Get ready for government designed autos?