Loading ...School Daze
I’m taking a few seconds today to write about something other than politics. I’m actually writing about college. At one the schools I teach at they’ve instituted a new policy; the instructors are now required to take attendance at the beginning and end of each class.
The logic is that students should be as acclimated to the world of work as possible so someone thought making them “punch in and punch out” would be the best way to do it. Now as instructors, we are obligated to carry out the policies of the institutions we teach in, but I’ve always wondered if mandatory attendance policies in higher education is a good idea.
I’ve always believed that as a student, you have a responsibility to come to class, period. It’s part of being a grown up. Now some classes (i.e. history) being there everyday may not be as important as say calculus or nursing. And I’ve never understood students who chronically miss class. You wouldn’t spend $7.00 on a burger and fries, get your food and not eat so why would you do it for an education that costs you thousands of dollars a year?
As a teacher/instructor my job is make the class engaging enough so that students don’t want to miss class and they feel bad when they do. I also have a duty to make sure that what is taught in the class isn’t necessarily what’s in the text, so students should have a reason to come. And students who tend not to show up, tend not to do so well.
I’ve never thought making people show up somewhere is a good idea. Smart people get it. Good teachers get. The ones who tend not to show up are the ones who probably shouldn’t have been there in the first place.
Back to politics tomorrow.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Abdul, the problem is that the current crop of “adult” college kids are actually nothing more than children. As such, schools are doing everything they can to appease the children and their parents. A current example is the push to make the drinking age 18. The idea this will lead to less binge drinking is laughable. It will actually increase binge drinking, since the 18-20 year old children have never had to become adults. It seems like the kids really don’t get it anymore until they finally get arrested and/or suspended or expelled from college. I know cases where kids constantly were involved with marijuana issues. They were given plenty of warnings, but they failed to listen. When they finally get arrested, they want to cry foul.
This all comes from the simple life 14-18 year old high schoolers lead. No more having to split a few cords of wood to cook and keep the house clean, no more having to help with the garden to keep food on the table, no more worrying about losing…everyone is a winner and gets a ribbon, no more having to milk the cows for milk, etc. etc.. Dealing with college kids is getting old for me. The university admin., usually liberal ‘it takes a village’ types constantly want to pamper their asses. The thing is, if money is attached, the university stands firm. From my understanding, money for public colleges and universities is moving away from a pure number of enrolled students towards retention rates. As such, schools now have to do whatever it takes to try and make sure kids pass _and_ come back to school. If you work for a public college/university, this might be the reason why. They hope that by forcing attendance, that will result in higher retention, which means public funding wont’ get cut.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:17 am
I always looked at it that if a person could pass the class without attending and without cheating….more power to them…..maybe they are the free thinkers we need in business today. There were many profs that swayed so far off the text books that you better be in class or risk missing 5 to 8 questions on the tests.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Attendance-taking can be busywork, but I suppose if the bosses tell you to do it, you’ve gotta do it. How many students in the class? Doesn’t it take a little while to do it? And doesn’t that take away from instructional time?
August 26th, 2008 at 8:28 am
What is the institution’s reasoning in requiring attendance taking? Or, did they even articulate it?
August 26th, 2008 at 8:38 am
I needed an undergraduate diploma to get into law school. Education was a nice add-on, but it wasn’t my primary reason for going to college. I could get educated in a number of less expensive ways if I wanted to. I had to pay for college to get a diploma.
I skipped a lot of classes, particularly when I felt like the lectures weren’t offering much or, honestly, when I felt like sleeping or was too hung over.
I grew up when I had to grow up. But, in college, I could still be reasonably irresponsible, and I’m happy for that. Good times.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:49 am
There are a number of ways you can take attendance: call the roll, sign-up sheets, etc.
In my college days each teacher had their own rules, but you could be failed for non-attendance if it was a heavy math, engineering or science class. Even theatre and music required you to be there.
What we found is the good students came to class and got the work done because they wanted to be there and the professor made it interesting.
The ones who didn’t want to be there, eventually dropped off the face of the planet.
August 26th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Everyone is correct here I think. I have a few degrees and quickly figured out that some classes could be skipped all semester if someone was simply repeating what I was capable of reading, comprehending and reproducing on the test. On the other hand, if you wanted to do well in classes with creative instructors, you were doomed to much lower grades if you weren’t there. It’s six of one and half dozen of the other.
The retention argument is interesting. I have a friend who teaches at a local univerisity who was told to stop making his class so difficult because these people paid their money and expected to get degrees with good grades. Whether they showed up or did the work didn’t seem to matter much. When you have to curve a test two or three times to get a majority of passing grades you have a problem. This was a basic undergraduate class.
I’m beginning to understand why so many people who are not college worthy are going anyway, which is a huge problem. Everyone is apparently entitled to a degree these days whether you’re dumb as a post or lazy to boot. Many of these kids are simply getting their tickets punched. The high schools are doing a horrible job of educating. I think a college degree in many cases is nothing more than the high school education they didn’t get. Which means a Masters degree is now a BS and a PHD is a Masters.
A complicated issue with few solutions if we keep deliberately misidentifying the problems. Schools should not be trying to retain marginal students. It devalues all degrees when they do so. It also saddles us with employees who are less equipped to perform than smart high school graduates, who are precluded from getting many jobs without that unnecessary punched ticket. There are tons of C and D students out there, especially in government and education, which is why we get the quality of service we do. When you’re entitled to a degree, you’re also entitled to a decent job and expect the same type of indulgence you’ve received all your life when you get it. It’s almost impossible in many cases these days to separate the bright and deserving from the entitled by looking at transcripts when everybody gets an A or B, with only a couple of C’s or D’s given so as not to offend or discourage the tykes from pursuing higher education.
This whole thing gets really bad when full-time employees want to get advanced degrees, don’t have any time to devote to them, but insist on going anyway and being indulged. I sure wish I could have waited to get my education today istead of in the good old days. The thought of never having to go to class (sat there every night until 9 or 10), having everything mailed or e-mailed to me (had to actually show up at class to communicate with instructor and turn in assignments, no extentions), and all the time in the world to finish (tests given at specific times with no make ups and what looked like a real bell curve for grades)seems like torture now.
August 26th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
“The ones who didn’t want to be there,eventually dropped off the face of the planet.” The guys and girls who don’t show up for work end up the same way! Isn’t that natural evolution? To bad a lot of scum bags find good women and men to support them of every race and creed! Hmmm wonder what the Clinton’s are up to??? OK low blow we weren’t talking about politicians were we? ;)
August 26th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Either you know the material or you do not. Attendance should not matter if one can pass the exams. I was in I.T. Management when taking a “computers in business” course. I worked it out with the professor that I would show up on test days and that worked great.
Your grade is supposed to be a reflection of whether or not you know the material, not how structured, scheduled or regimented one is. Those metrics will play themselves out in College to some extent but definitely later in life.
There were far too many days after working third shift, taking morning classes and ending the day with a 2:00 or 2:30 (I think) Business Law class that I just had to leave and go to bed.
From a “career” perspective, there are lots of jobs out there where you don’t have to punch a time clock and nobody will check their watch as long as the job is getting done and getting done well.
Can you take attendance by acclamation?
“Are we all here?”
“ayyye”
August 26th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Abdul,
It’s all about VA/GI Bill benefits. E-mail me for details.
August 26th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
HOWEVER, distance learning is “the next big thing”, and there’s no attendance taken at online classes.
You do the assignments, you get graded.
It’s kinda like attendance by acclamation, eh?
August 26th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Sorry but I see it this way… If I don’t show up for work or I leave work early without permission, I get fired. Same way with college courses in my book. If I pay for my kids to go to college and they don’t go to classes, they BETTER DAMNED WELL be kicked out of the class. That IS the real world.
August 26th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Agreed. More time to devote to the people that want to learn & one less paper to grade. Higher education is detached from the street enough already.
August 27th, 2008 at 11:11 am
I went to a small private college in the Central Indiana area. Most teachers took attendance and a few did not. In class on day the professor was asked the question why he took attendance. His story started at a large public university in a different state where he once taught. He had large class sizes and never took attendance. One morning it was announced that a co-ed had been missing from campus and was last heard from by her parents 3 weeks ago. He recognized the name and checked his class rosters. The co-ed was one of his students! It was later found that she was kidnapped and killed. He said he always felt that if he would have known that she was not coming to class that he could have alerted someone and she may have been saved.
August 27th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Oh, come on, “A Different Take”!
That urban myth has a gray beard…
And, StatlernWaldorf, the real world wants to know what you know, not what chairs you warmed.
Sitting in class doesn’t guarantee an education, especially in the cyber world. And, sitting in the office doesn’t guarantee “work” is being done.
There are far better ways to measure production (and knowledge) than by monitoring seat time!
August 27th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
My daughter was a straight A student in a Catholic high school but was not helped much by her guidance counselor and we missed out on a full scholarship by 4 points on her SAT. I ended up paying for her entire tuition, room and board. She attended every lecture and she graduated second in her class, Magna Cum Laude and very successful professional in her field. My daughter’s room mate a straight A student in public high school was awarded a four year full scholarship including room and board. The room mate rarely went to class. She lasted one semester, dropped out and works at minimum wage jobs.
Moral of the story is you need to get you lazy ass out of bed and go to class.