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	<title>Comments on: More Tales From the City</title>
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	<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html</link>
	<description>Indiana Barrister is the source for local Indianapolis and Indiana news, politics and commentary.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-703</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-703</guid>
		<description>8:37, I'm hoping you pushed "send" before you thought that post over.  It's the e-version of thinking before you engage your mouth.  9:37 couldn't be more correct.

I know many LEOs.  They're frustrated by what they view as poor bargaining faith by the Peterson administration.  I've not been at the table, but I take their word for it.

But riddle me this:

In what real world, does a rejected contract offer re-surface and stay on the table for five months, all the while never again mentioned?

In the surreal world of Vince Huber, maybe.  But in every other real world I know, it won't pass muster.  Sorry, Aaron Sullivan, but you inherited the bargaining position of a complete egomaniac who didn't pay attention to details.

LEOs, if the mayor is guilty of poor faith bargaining, and I suspect he is, your union is guilty of stupid bargaining.

Which does not give the administration the right to take advantage.

As a gesture of good faith, if I were the administration, I'd put most of the offer back on the table, and cut the city budget somewhere else.

Like:

City-County Council travel and salaries.  They need not go ANYwhere on the public dime.  For a year.

Mayoral office travel and salaries

Raise Metro. Devleopment Commission building permit fees.  The Department has become a complete joke anyway.  Let's franchise the stupidity and reap profits.

Squeeze the living shit out of the eletronic voting machine vendors and find a couple million there.  They're squeeze-able now.  If you doubt it, watch the HBO documentary, "Hacking Democracy." Priceless.

And there are many more cuts.  If we're going o treat govt. like business, then let's do it all the way.  Take full advantage of vendors who are on their knees anyway.  Raise fees where the market will bear it.  Cut travel, discretionary expenses, etc.  Become ruthless about the budget.

I bet I can find enough for the LEOs' back pay in two hours alone with the city budget.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>8:37, I&#8217;m hoping you pushed &#8220;send&#8221; before you thought that post over.  It&#8217;s the e-version of thinking before you engage your mouth.  9:37 couldn&#8217;t be more correct.</p>
<p>I know many LEOs.  They&#8217;re frustrated by what they view as poor bargaining faith by the Peterson administration.  I&#8217;ve not been at the table, but I take their word for it.</p>
<p>But riddle me this:</p>
<p>In what real world, does a rejected contract offer re-surface and stay on the table for five months, all the while never again mentioned?</p>
<p>In the surreal world of Vince Huber, maybe.  But in every other real world I know, it won&#8217;t pass muster.  Sorry, Aaron Sullivan, but you inherited the bargaining position of a complete egomaniac who didn&#8217;t pay attention to details.</p>
<p>LEOs, if the mayor is guilty of poor faith bargaining, and I suspect he is, your union is guilty of stupid bargaining.</p>
<p>Which does not give the administration the right to take advantage.</p>
<p>As a gesture of good faith, if I were the administration, I&#8217;d put most of the offer back on the table, and cut the city budget somewhere else.</p>
<p>Like:</p>
<p>City-County Council travel and salaries.  They need not go ANYwhere on the public dime.  For a year.</p>
<p>Mayoral office travel and salaries</p>
<p>Raise Metro. Devleopment Commission building permit fees.  The Department has become a complete joke anyway.  Let&#8217;s franchise the stupidity and reap profits.</p>
<p>Squeeze the living shit out of the eletronic voting machine vendors and find a couple million there.  They&#8217;re squeeze-able now.  If you doubt it, watch the HBO documentary, &#8220;Hacking Democracy.&#8221; Priceless.</p>
<p>And there are many more cuts.  If we&#8217;re going o treat govt. like business, then let&#8217;s do it all the way.  Take full advantage of vendors who are on their knees anyway.  Raise fees where the market will bear it.  Cut travel, discretionary expenses, etc.  Become ruthless about the budget.</p>
<p>I bet I can find enough for the LEOs&#8217; back pay in two hours alone with the city budget.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-702</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-702</guid>
		<description>I am not a lawyer, but the offer the FOP rejected obviously is no longer valid until another one is made.  That certainly does not change the items on the agenda when the parties meet to negotiate.  Money was budgeted for a raise and the issues that caused us to reject the last contract offer had to do with more than just money.

Mayor Peterson and his spokespeople have never bargained in good faith with the FOP.  They have constantly manipulated the process in an effort to intimidate the FOP into going away.

We selected representatives to negotiate our contract on our behalf and he has sidestepped these reps by contacting each member directly.  He does this to try and divide our membership.  He delays scheduled negotiating meetings in hopes of influencing FOP elections.  Having met with members on our negotiating team and discussed the progress of negotiations with the city, each one of them has provided personal examples of instances when the City's contract negotiators have misrepresented the truth, if not outright lied.

I, nor any other member of the FOP is asking the Mayor or the city tip their negotiating hand and open the tax dollar floodgates.  We simply ask that they come to the table with a fair and open mind, a goal of reaching an equitable and mutually beneficial contract and the desire to represent the city in the most ethical manner possible.

The deceptions, misrepresentations, and lies serve no purpose even for them, so I am uncertain why they are motivated to engage in such behavior.  Given that public safety represents the single most expensive cost on the city's budget and the majority of citizens want to feel safe as they move about, it would seem in the best interest of Mayor Peterson to have a police department that attracts the best and brightest and is happy when at work.

Mayor Peterson recently worked very hard to put together a nearly $1 billion deal for the Indianapolis Colts and structured a tax increase in and out of Marion County while accomplishing this task.  We simply ask him to give us equal consideration when it comes to the creative budgeting process.  Ultimately, I and many other officers feel unappreciated by many, especially the Mayor and his staff.

Recently, a friend of mine and also an FOP member was nearly strangled to death while fighting a man trying to avoid an arrest he had on an open warrant.  It is times like these, when the lack of respect shown by Mayor Peterson towards the police makes me sad to say I work for him.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not a lawyer, but the offer the FOP rejected obviously is no longer valid until another one is made.  That certainly does not change the items on the agenda when the parties meet to negotiate.  Money was budgeted for a raise and the issues that caused us to reject the last contract offer had to do with more than just money.</p>
<p>Mayor Peterson and his spokespeople have never bargained in good faith with the FOP.  They have constantly manipulated the process in an effort to intimidate the FOP into going away.</p>
<p>We selected representatives to negotiate our contract on our behalf and he has sidestepped these reps by contacting each member directly.  He does this to try and divide our membership.  He delays scheduled negotiating meetings in hopes of influencing FOP elections.  Having met with members on our negotiating team and discussed the progress of negotiations with the city, each one of them has provided personal examples of instances when the City&#8217;s contract negotiators have misrepresented the truth, if not outright lied.</p>
<p>I, nor any other member of the FOP is asking the Mayor or the city tip their negotiating hand and open the tax dollar floodgates.  We simply ask that they come to the table with a fair and open mind, a goal of reaching an equitable and mutually beneficial contract and the desire to represent the city in the most ethical manner possible.</p>
<p>The deceptions, misrepresentations, and lies serve no purpose even for them, so I am uncertain why they are motivated to engage in such behavior.  Given that public safety represents the single most expensive cost on the city&#8217;s budget and the majority of citizens want to feel safe as they move about, it would seem in the best interest of Mayor Peterson to have a police department that attracts the best and brightest and is happy when at work.</p>
<p>Mayor Peterson recently worked very hard to put together a nearly $1 billion deal for the Indianapolis Colts and structured a tax increase in and out of Marion County while accomplishing this task.  We simply ask him to give us equal consideration when it comes to the creative budgeting process.  Ultimately, I and many other officers feel unappreciated by many, especially the Mayor and his staff.</p>
<p>Recently, a friend of mine and also an FOP member was nearly strangled to death while fighting a man trying to avoid an arrest he had on an open warrant.  It is times like these, when the lack of respect shown by Mayor Peterson towards the police makes me sad to say I work for him.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-701</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 03:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-701</guid>
		<description>to 8:37 - if that's your attitude (that you would rather write tickets than make the community safe), then I don't feel bad they YOU aren't getting a riase.  For the other officers who continue to the real work of policing under adverse conditions, they most certainly deserve a raise.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to 8:37 - if that&#8217;s your attitude (that you would rather write tickets than make the community safe), then I don&#8217;t feel bad they YOU aren&#8217;t getting a riase.  For the other officers who continue to the real work of policing under adverse conditions, they most certainly deserve a raise.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-700</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 02:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-700</guid>
		<description>As a law enforcement officer working in Indianapolis Marion County, I will be getting a raise.  It is called traffic court overtime for the massive amounts of tickets I will write to all those folk leaving the peashake houses, community centers(specifically the Julia Carson Center) and fans from the Colts/Pacers games.  You don't give me a raise, fine I will make it up in traffic tickets and the city will make money from the $150 fine plus costs.  And while I am writing all these tickets to make up for my lost income, the dopers, rapists, gangbangers and general report runs will pile up.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a law enforcement officer working in Indianapolis Marion County, I will be getting a raise.  It is called traffic court overtime for the massive amounts of tickets I will write to all those folk leaving the peashake houses, community centers(specifically the Julia Carson Center) and fans from the Colts/Pacers games.  You don&#8217;t give me a raise, fine I will make it up in traffic tickets and the city will make money from the $150 fine plus costs.  And while I am writing all these tickets to make up for my lost income, the dopers, rapists, gangbangers and general report runs will pile up.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 22:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-699</guid>
		<description>I am a lawyer but am BAD with contract law, so maybe you can help Abdul.  If an offer is made, and that offer is rejected, does the offer still legally exist?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a lawyer but am BAD with contract law, so maybe you can help Abdul.  If an offer is made, and that offer is rejected, does the offer still legally exist?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-698</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 06:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2006/12/more_tales_from_the_city.html#comment-698</guid>
		<description>Abdul,
You're right we did vote it down.  However, this mayor has not, nor has he ever negotiated in good faith. On top of all of the other issues with the merger etc.. His lies have pushed us over the edge.   There is no way any other union would put up with one-tenth of this and most if not all would have been on strike long before now.  Unfortunately that’s not an option for us.  For whatever reason, this mayor simply hates the police.  He'll say it's not true but as the old saying goes; "actions speak louder than words"

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abdul,<br />
You&#8217;re right we did vote it down.  However, this mayor has not, nor has he ever negotiated in good faith. On top of all of the other issues with the merger etc.. His lies have pushed us over the edge.   There is no way any other union would put up with one-tenth of this and most if not all would have been on strike long before now.  Unfortunately that’s not an option for us.  For whatever reason, this mayor simply hates the police.  He&#8217;ll say it&#8217;s not true but as the old saying goes; &#8220;actions speak louder than words&#8221;</p>
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